How many of you are interested in "Cherry Pick" QB for CMSF?

[goodwood]

Is Battlefront going at least tweak the figures for the QB games. Many QB are unplayable due to poor mix combatants, u can't play the Light Infantry, because you inevitably get more vehicles than personnel, not much fun. Please fix, this part the game should be enjoyable as well

Ron

[Thomm]

Please fix, this part the game should be enjoyable as well.

Yes, it would be cool if they removed some of the weirdness from the CM:SF QB force selection ...

Best regards,

Thomm

[MeatEtr]

Heh... that's the sort of confused terminology you get while I'm working on modern German forces and answering questions about WW2 Germans. I should have said 150mm

Steve

So it's confirmed then, we'll be getting the Brummbär. So can we get a screenshot of it plz?

[Sergei]

Not confirmed yet. Could be Hummel, Grille, Lorraine SPG or a towed gun as well...

[MeatEtr]

Not confirmed yet. Could be Hummel, Grille, Lorraine SPG or a towed gun as well...

But I want the Bear, bring it on.......

[Sergei]

Note to self: "MeatEtr" wants a Bear with a big gun... :eek:

[Paul AU]

BFC wrote:

Cherry Picking isn't a neutral term in my eyes.

It’s a negative term. Most of the time when I ‘cherry-pick’, it’s not for the ‘best’ units, the cherries, it’s to create ad-hoc units in odd combinations which weren’t as rare as I think you think they were. When I do this, I’m as likely to pick a crab-apple as a cherry.

I too mostly liked the ‘shopping’ aspect of CMx1, and accept the ‘mis-pricing’ (IMO) of some units as part of the, er, price of such a fun QB purchase system. It’s a shame that’ll be gone. It’ll be interesting to see how CMx2’s (hidden) dynamic/relative unit costs work out.

You will be allowed to specify … individual elements, not Formations which are predetermined collections of specific Units. You will, however, be able to pick Formations if you want.

Sounds good, and a relief to hear.

(That way I can pick my single piece of armour that gets bogged on turn one on the road while going slow… given any more thought to the ‘Immobilisation Probability Toggle’? No? Oh.)

Also relieved to hear that a random map system will be there. Yay.

How about, in addition to the ‘tiles’ system; the QB system can be asked to select an entire pre-existing map from a maps folder - at random? So you’d get a random non-random map, possibly cropped to suit the size of the engagement.

(And don’t forget to include the ‘ditch’ terrain-type).

[MeatEtr]

Note to self: "MeatEtr" wants a Bear with a big gun... :eek:

But is it historically feasable? The first Normandy game is what time period, June, July, and August right? IIRC they made their fist appearance at Caen in August.

Yup, close enough, it's a must have!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Also relieved to hear that a random map system will be there. Yay.

Uh... are you sitting down? No random maps for Normandy. Steve has written even megatiles are not only some while off, IIRC it's no sure thing.

How about, in addition to the ‘tiles’ system; the QB system can be asked to select an entire pre-existing map from a maps folder - at random? So you’d get a random non-random map, possibly cropped to suit the size of the engagement.

That's sounds good to me. Should provide some passable maps. Cropping pre-existing maps is probably harder then it sounds though. But even mere picking the maps yourself or randomly by the game, unaltered, would go a long way to reduce current map selection suckage.

(And don’t forget to include the ‘ditch’ terrain-type).

We can make ditches already. Were you thinking of something particularly ditch-like?

[Wengart]

Currently trenches are our ditches; having a separate terrain type would probably be better.

[sfhand]

I'd be happy with being able to add one map to another. AFAIK, this is impossible right now. I'd love to be able to mix, match, and tweak 2-4 quickbattle maps into a larger map.

And thanks again to the qbg for making maps to begin with, it wasn't until I tried my hand a map making that I realized how much time it takes.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Why can't the game come with a map of all of Western Europe? Then it can be broken up into tiles which can be randomly chosen for QBs.

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, cropping maps is a lot harder than it sounds. At least the way the game works now. To crop a map the game would have to dynamically reconfigure setup zones and AI Plans. That's not easily done.

Randomly selecting from maps in the folder, which appear to fit the specifications of the QB Parameters (determined by the player) does. Specific selection of a particular map, by the player, should also be allowed.

Steve

[Paul AU]

Yeah, cropping maps is a lot harder than it sounds. At least the way the game works now. To crop a map the game would have to dynamically reconfigure setup zones and AI Plans. That's not easily done.

No, you crop the map first. Before the player is presented with it. Then the program runs as normal. It's a naked map - no set-up zones. Easy.

[Sergei]

Yeah, cropping maps is a lot harder than it sounds. At least the way the game works now. To crop a map the game would have to dynamically reconfigure setup zones and AI Plans. That's not easily done.

No, you crop the map first. Before the player is presented with it. Then the program runs as normal. It's a naked map - no set-up zones. Easy.

:confused: A 'naked' map without setup zones is unusable for Quick Battle, so I don't know what your point is.

[Paul AU]

Uh... are you sitting down? No random maps for Normandy.

Well yes I am. And, I thought BFC'd said there would be. What was that whole 'tiles

thing?

It was 12 pages.

[Paul AU]

A Quick Battle's set-up zones are based on the map it's given.

Any questions?

[TheVulture]

Uh... are you sitting down? No random maps for Normandy.

Well yes I am. And, I thought BFC'd said there would be. What was that whole 'tiles

thing?

It was 12 pages.

That's their best bet for doing random maps in CMx2; Steve has IIRC said that it won't be in Normandy, and they don't know when it will make an appearance yet.

[Ryujin]

No, you crop the map first. Before the player is presented with it. Then the program runs as normal. It's a naked map - no set-up zones. Easy.

A Quick Battle's set-up zones are based on the map it's given.

Any questions?

Nope, that pretty much explains why it won't work

[Sergei]

A Quick Battle's set-up zones are based on the map it's given.

Of course they are. So what happens if one side's set-up zone gets cropped out? The same with AI plans and objective locations.

[TheVulture]

Of course they are. So what happens if one side's set-up zone gets cropped out? The same with AI plans and objective locations.

What I think PaulAU is suggesting is that the base map has no pre-determined setup zones. Once the section of map being used is decided, setup zones and objectives are determined by some algorithm based on the map shape and terrain. (Similar to the CMx1 random maps, with simple 'standard' setup zones and a variety of flags set in good cover / high ground in an area of the map determined by the battle type).

It's not an impossible task, but as always, it takes a certain amount of time for a programmer to code and test an algorithm that gives satisfactory results a decent fraction of the time.

[Battlefront.com]

What I think PaulAU is suggesting is that the base map has no pre-determined setup zones. Once the section of map being used is decided, setup zones and objectives are determined by some algorithm based on the map shape and terrain. (Similar to the CMx1 random maps, with simple 'standard' setup zones and a variety of flags set in good cover / high ground in an area of the map determined by the battle type).

It's not an impossible task, but as always, it takes a certain amount of time for a programmer to code and test an algorithm that gives satisfactory results a decent fraction of the time.

Not impossible at all. For Setup Zones it's one of those things that is technically very easy to do, but it takes time code and time to test (which usually requires more coding and more testing, etc.). But without AI Plans being dynamically adjusted, which is a technically complex thing to do, the idea of map cropping is dead on arrival. We're not going to distract ourselves with a stopgap feature like map cropping. Better to use the time for something more useful long term and then do Mega Tiles so we have a real solution.

Steve

[LEGION7698]

Hey All,

Just my point of view on the "cherry picking". Never played the older games as did'nt discover this untill a few months back so never got to use the purchase system. However I generally avoid the QB's as I only really like to play as the British (being British myself of course) and on anything other than a large map my force is always rather pants (somehow taking an objective on a small map with only a few Javalin teams aginst infantry is'nt going to work). I'd be happy with the system at the moment if it had Infantry (apart from choosing an armoured/tank force) platoons as the core units and everything else attached instead of the current set up of Infantry as a n after thought.

Just my idea on this subject (not sure if this applies to the US troops, like I say I only play as British).

Regards,

LEGION7698.

[Paul AU]

Thank you, Mr. Vulture. Indeed.

CMx1 does it instantly. Crop the map, *then* unleash the scenario editor.

(And don't forget the ditches).

[Paul AU]

Elmar Bijlsma

Yes, particularly ditch-like. Fields and roads don't have 6' deep, wooden-reinforced trenches down each side. Your typical Normandy field is not ringed by a military 'trench'.

All the eye-witness accounts I've read, have mostly been from 'ditches'. Seems to me, most of that war was fought from, ditches. Narrow, low, muddy, not-a-trench, ditches.

(Would you like to talk about the game-killing effect of a random immobilisations?)