Real-Timer or WE-GO????, and spooky action at a distance...

[Foobar]

OK,

Maybe I havent been paying attention, or maybe I have jut been taking too much cough syrup...

But it looks like CMSF will be real-time AND WEGO?

wtf

WEGO is how we kept all the haxxorz and Sony Wii people away from our clubhouse. Now all these twitchers are going to come in here with their energy drinks, and their Snowboarding jackets with buil-tin ipods, and pwn me at a game I call myself good at.....

I intend to refuse to play RTS mode, and I am going to be a real snob about it. Plus, I can't eat while playing an RTS. I get all stressed out and in a bother...

I can only imagine whats going to happen to space-time when I am playing WEGO against an RTS-er... Our AAR screen is going to pop out at the Hadron Accelerator in Switzerland, and we'll both be sitting there wondering what happened....

[ February 23, 2007, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: *Captain Foobar* ]

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Just before the CMSF release we really should remove all links to Gyrenes place and hide till the fcukt@rds go away.

[MikeyD]

I imagine us old CMx1 players getting nervous twitches from attempting to handle frenetic RealTime battles, and eventually switching back to the comparitive peace of playing Wego (but without that damned tedious blue bar at the bottom anymore! Woo Hoo!) FPS shooter players will be attracted by the RealTime play but become frustrated when 'run & blast' proves to be an inefficient tactic. Once they start trying to THINK OUT a situation the new FPS guys may be tempted to give WeGo a try just for the luxury of extra planning time.

Unfortunatley for us pureists, in order for BFC to afford to build a whole series of CMx2-based sims the game will necessarily have to purchased by at least a few of the 'unwashed masses'.

[ February 23, 2007, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I'd be happy if Battlefront suddenly attracted hordes of money-laden RTS/FPS fanboys. But then again, I doubt that will happen.

I think we're safe here for awhile

[Sixxkiller]

Well it will help if they gravitate to the consoles. And I suspect this game will garner a more "secular" following if it does go that direction. And if this does happen I think maybe they will be able to afford some of the luxuries bigger gaming houses have. Not like after all the years they have done this shouldnt reap a windfall that they deserve just by being true to thier manifesto.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[jeffsmith]

I am a huge fan of WEGO

as most of my games are PBEM

but

for smaller battles or TCP

RT mode may be worth a try

[ February 24, 2007, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: jeffsmith ]

[Other Means]

I think knowing proper tactics will rule over clicks per minute.

Has CM1 taught us good tactics? I mean, has it really or was it all an artefact of the game engine?

If it has, then experienced CM1 players will, and I don't think I over state here, kick, THE **** out of players who go in with an opinion of tactics that has been formed by unrealistic games.

The only instance in the game time when better reactions will be an issue is when there's a full on, all out attack, as it will enable the quick reactions to play a part.

Thing is, we know how a non-attrition/ badly overwatched attack ends; If you force an advance, while the pressure on the defenders is great, you don't give enough time for you overwatch to kill everything. The defender gets to pick apart the CA package as they want and the attack fails.

Seriously; if CM:SF takes off as I hope it will, the CM skills gained in CM1 will transfer. All except the split squad/uber StuG stuff that was never intended.

YMMV, of course.

[juan_gigante]

I'm really not sure why people are complaining quite this much about real-time. I mean, if you haven't noticed lately, real life is in real time. Soldiers, believe it or not, actually do real-time strategy without relying on silly run-and-gun tactics which have been stereotyped as the RTS norm. Now, I fully expect to do most of my playing in WeGo - I'm not sure I could keep up in real time. But to argue that real time is unrealistic, will require a vastly different style of play, or generally won't function well in a realistic environment like CM:SF is a little unfair.

[C'Rogers]

It is also an issue of size of battle that some of us forum members are used to. When there was the announcement of real time I thought 'well I can't sit around making sure I check everything twice, but perfectly doable'. But then I still generally play company size engagements, not some of the monstrous engagements some people seem to favor. Now those will be likely near impossible in real time. But Company level or smaller (with probably like 15 different total "units") should not be that hectic.

[Foobar]

Well,

I hope you guys are right.....

I was always hoping that a lower forum# equated to innate CM skill, but I guess I will have to hope I have actually learned something, and apply myself in the heat of battle..

Bring it on Scott!! You are the diet coke of evil! Daddy loves you! Now stop looking at me like Im freakin Frankenstein over here!

[zwobot]

If you play a scenario in real-time instead of WeGo, would one get more time (will there be time limits at all?).

What I think differs real-time from reallife-real-time is that a company commander would not give direct orders to every squad or fire team as you have to in CM, correct?

[Foobar]

No, he would not,

BUT, the big difference is that in REAL LIFE, you would have like 30-40 REAL BRAINS giving out orders in REAL TIME, and unfortunately when you play, its up to just you...

Thats the bottleneck, you thinking for anywhere between 10-1000 people. Such is the tradeoff of trying to be the guy and simulate/control it all- we will see, maybe they will find a way to make the balance work..

but even with a magic balance that make Realtime play doable and fun, I like to eat a sandwich while i see explosions, and for that I will sit back and the time tested, blessed WEGO

keep it real boyeeee

[Kineas]

I'll probably give the realtime mode a try, but wego is the final choice. The two are fundamentally different. Wargames and (non-pausable)realtime games engage totally different sections in your brain.

I'm still sceptical about the realtime gameplay. Just because the engagement ranges are longer and the pace is slower it doesn't mean the whole thing won't revolve around action per minutes. This is not a simulator, there is no such a role in the battlefield what the player would take, as pointed out earlier. But realtime mode will be fine to conduct smaller battles and to learn the game mechanics. What really interests me is that where's the balance in the design and in the gui between the two game modes.

[Pete Wenman]

The problem with RTS games (which I hate) is that they are not in "real time", but in massively acclerated time. This is why they become a clickfest, because the player doesn't have the time to think and plan.

I've operated in battlegroup commandpost exercises that took days, with the "fighting" going on over an area 5x10 miles (not big). A lot of the time is spent thinking about what is going on, using the assets available to check on enemy positions and forces, and guessing their intentions. No clickfest there.

During heavy "combat" the level of radio info reaches overload levels but most is info being rec'd, rather than orders being given. (To late for detailed orders at this time anyway).

Provided CM2 operates in real time, and not accelerated time the non-stop aspect should be a great challenger.

Lets be honest while the action may be intense at times, most battles still consist of a lot of hurry up and wait.

just my 0.02p

[ February 24, 2007, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Pete Wenman ]

[zwobot]

Originally posted by Pete Wenman:

I've operated in battlegroup commandpost exercises that took days, with the "fighting" going on over an area 5x10 miles (not big). A lot of the time is spent thinking about what is going on, using the assets available to check on enenmy positions and forces, and guessing their intentions. No clickfest there.

Good point. I hope with the new handling of objectives / victory conditions it will be possible to do reconnaissance patrol scenarios with insertion, recon and reentry of friendly lines. But maybe that would be quite boring and not feasable with time limits.

[aka_tom_w]

I am REALLY looking forward to RealTime to play and practice against the AI.

Realtime will shine and may be my first choice when I want a challenge against the AI because there will be instant gratitifaction and no waiting. (I am in my 40's and reallife leaves my playing time limited so I still want instant gratification, and as much game play per minute as possible, so realtime against the AI for solo play will be a HUGE bonus.)

Against human opponents I would suggest only the most highly skilled (AND Quick thinking) players could do well. BUT that is what I hope to be working up to agains the AI in Realtime practice.

Captain Foobar, I understand there will be some form of RealTime "Time out" feature for a bio break or snack I think.

(If this is new to you my understanding of the TimeOut feature was a pause in the play that did not let you issue commands or study the map or anything, JUST a stopage in play with a blank screen, BUT that is JUST from a fragment of memory that Steve mentioned a LONG time ago, last time this came up.)

-tom w

[Cpl Steiner]

I think real-time will work fine for smallish scenarios in which the player is only in control of an infantry platoon or equivalent. However, for company-sized units and above it will probably be too difficult to control. Imagine trying to do the CMBB scenario "Blitzkrieg" in real-time for instance. Such larger scenarios, if they are ever playable due to hardware requirements, will probably need some sort of co-op feature to be played in real-time.

I would have liked to have seen some sort of pause feature for the larger scenarios to get around the problem that the player can only look at one thing at a time but in reality there would be dozens of people minding different parts of the battlefield.

[Battlefront.com]

Guys, don't forget that RTS and RT are not the same thing. They stand for REAL TIME STRATEGY game and REAL TIME method of play. RTS is specific to things like C&C, Warcraft, and about 200 other games. The center focus of such games is capturing resources so you can build bases and increase your forces so you can take more resources, build more bases, and more forces. Since CM:SF has no bases or resources to gather, RTS is therefore has nothing to do with CM. RT, aka "Continuous Time", of course does.

Now, you WeGo bigots need to get over the thought that RT play *only* appeals to 15 year old Wii and XBox kids. Far from it. So far almost all of our testers, which includes people from CMBO Beta Demo days and military officers, are playing in RT and not WeGo. I have yet to play a full battle using WeGo. Instead, I've been playing RT almost exclusively. That's partly because I like it and partly because whatever works for RT will work for WeGo, but not vice versa.

Steve

[Foobar]

"Now, you WeGo bigots...."

Steve,

You, Charles, Moon, and Madmatt have made me what I am..... We are your children, and you have trained us well!!!!!

[Foobar]

Most joking aside,

I think we just fear/dislike change, unless we somehow know intuitively that the change will be awesomer.

I look forward to trying the RT mode, and hope that I/we can keep up, and play the game to a smart tactical level in realtime, the way we do in WeGo.

But I think what I will never get tired of or outgrow from WeGo is the incredible thrill of watching your poor soldiers, like a commander, as they conquer, get slaughtered, and everything in between, with no "control" over those 60 second moments in time.

But I recant all my previous statements about RTS, I am sure it will be great, and that most Military Historians and Mensa members approve of it. Maybe those energy drinks and baggy pants are good for you.

But consoles still suck ass, sorry.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Since CM:SF has no bases or resources to gather,

Steve

You mean I dont gather gold and wood and produce more infantry squads

:confused:

[J Ruddy]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

im in ur base killin ur doodz!!!!

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Now, you WeGo bigots need to get over the thought that RT play *only* appeals to 15 year old Wii and XBox kids.

It would certainly be nice to not feel like I'm going to be jumped by guys twice (or more..) my age for fitting two parts of that.

I guess I just outted myself

[Foobar]

Zoidberg,

I for one would never jump you. Only in the cesspool, and only if you asked for it....

I hold you in the highest regard sir, as do the others here, and I am reasonably certain that you come from fine stock. If I am wrong about your lineage, then I am reasonably certain that your good character will make up for the difference. And if I overestimated your character, then well, at least I have to admit you are a snappy dresser.

If you dress poorly, there is little left, but your good sense to visit these forums, which is really all I have going for me.

Well met sir, huzzah!

(But I still hate consoles. Hate the game, not the gamer or somefink)