We spoiled brats, we great unwashed, we customers...

[Battlefront.com]

A reminder about some basics regarding what is a Title and what is a Module:

A Title will be a fairly defined setting. For example, US forces in Normandy. Modules will be RELATED to that initial setting. For example, CW forces in Normandy, or a little bit further distant like Arnhem or Bulge. It will not, repeate, not be a battle in Russia or the desert or the PTO somewhere. That is just way too scattered and defeats the purpose of the Module concept since some of these concepts have absolutely nothing to do with the Title release. Put another way, Modules will have a high degree of overlap with the original Title's setting.

In CMx1 terms this means we would release three separate Titles in succession, hopefully not more than 8-12 months apart:

CMx2 - Western Front ETO

CMx2 - Eastern Front ETO

CMx2 - Southern Front ETO

A bunch of Modules would be released for each one, coming out generally inbetween Title releases, but not necessarily only between. In other words, you might get a Western Front ETO Module after the Eastern Front ETO Title is released. The great thing about our system is that it doesn't have to be all or nothing like CMx1.

How will we decide which Modules to do? It is going to be a lot of Voodoo for sure

Steve

[junk2drive]

Except for the Voodoo, that is how I had perceived the system to work all along.

I think the term Titles may help some of those challenged souls. Some may still post in despair cuz they don't get it.

[MikeyD]

"I was wondering what you have in mind as to gauge the interest of the community"

Oh gawd, I hope they AREN'T trying to gauge community interest! :eek: :mad: You know that saying - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

Designing the product to please everybody might lead (worst case scenario) to Maus fighting M36 TDs on Omaha beach. I'd rather see a lovingly crafted BFC title on the Russo/Japanese war than a title hacked together to please Everybody!

[end of small pointless rant ]

[Salkin]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

"I was wondering what you have in mind as to gauge the interest of the community"

Oh gawd, I hope they AREN'T trying to gauge community interest! :eek: :mad: You know that saying - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

Designing the product to please everybody might lead (worst case scenario) to Maus fighting M36 TDs on Omaha beach. I'd rather see a lovingly crafted BFC title on the Russo/Japanese war than a title hacked together to please Everybody!

[end of small pointless rant ]

I concur !

[GJK]

Originally posted by dalem:

Yeah, I've got a whole shelf's worth of ASL. I doubt I'll ever play again, and even though I was stocking up on the modules, I don't even do that anymore.

-dale

You don't have a copy of J2 (ASL Journal #2) sitting on that shelf do you? If so, have you priced it recently on eBay?

You really outta give VASL a try - you'll never go back to these silly computer games.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Oh gawd, I hope they AREN'T trying to gauge community interest! :eek: :mad: You know that saying - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

[edit] ---> My bad. I wasn't clear. I wanted hint about how bfc would choose their titles. *NOT* if our opinion matters. I know it does to an undisclosed extent. hehe.

Cheers

[ September 08, 2005, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

[dalem]

Originally posted by GJK:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dalem:

Yeah, I've got a whole shelf's worth of ASL. I doubt I'll ever play again, and even though I was stocking up on the modules, I don't even do that anymore.

-dale

You don't have a copy of J2 (ASL Journal #2) sitting on that shelf do you? If so, have you priced it recently on eBay?

You really outta give VASL a try - you'll never go back to these silly computer games. </font>

[GJK]

Originally posted by dalem:

Holy crap! $228 for that? I have one, sure - part of my current bathroom reading collection actually. If it came with counters and such I'm sure I have them somewhere in the boxes.

What did it come with?

-dale

I shoulda just offered you $30.00 for it....

http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/prodjournal2.php

[Ardem]

Hmmm so does this mean titles will not intergrate, so if you got the ETO and normandy, you could play say Patton's Revenge?

Hmm I hope titles can be intermixed, like modules. But I am guessing not

[Battlefront.com]

The plan is for Modules to be loadable from the Title they were released for. But no, Modules from other Titles will not be. Meaning, you can not load the "Space Lobsters of Doom - Hemroid's Revenge Module" into the WWII Western Front Title and match Shermans against the MkXXXII Space Scooter.

I use this example to remind you guys about what I've already said... we will be doing WWII stuff, but not just WWII stuff. Everything about our development strategy is based around this concept.

The other question that always comes up is backwards compatibility of fixes. For example, we make the third Title, will improvements from that be backwards compatible with the first? For the reason I just stated above (i.e. mixed content) the chances are, for the most part, the answer will be no. This is for the simple reason that the game system itself might be radically altered to suit a new setting. When we improve the active force field generator interface for Space Lobsters, this won't be relevant to a Napoleonics game. This would mean that we have to go through the code and sort out which features, for example a networking overhaul, are applicable and which ones aren't. Depending on how different the games are, this could be a lot of work for us.

Chances are, because coding works the way it works and not the way we like it to work, it could require extra work to get it to function in an older releases. Especially releases that aren't sequential nor similar settings. That's just the reality of things, not something we're making up.

As I have stated before, we are hoping to make some things backwards compatible, but don't plan on it being a free patch. We just don't see that as the likely reality.

Steve

[Barrold]

So to answer a question raised in another thread, players would have to have the same modules within a title to be able to play each other?

EDIT...or purchase a "feature upgrade" patch to allow play between customers with asynchronous MODULE purchases. I would presume such a patch wouldn't provide units like an addition of Canadian troops in a MODULE, but rather synch up the performance of the TITLE

BDH

[ September 09, 2005, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Barrold ]

[Scipio]

That's what I'm most worried about, too. If I own 'Leather goddesses of Phobos' and the 'Purple Saturn' module, while my opponent has only the 'Mercury Spring' module - will we be completly incompatible, or can we still play on base of the basic game?

[Battlefront.com]

You'd both need the same Module to play with the content of that Module (base Titles will always be able to play against each other). That's because data needs to be local. If you don't have common data, how can you possibly play the same thing?

To expand upon this slightly...

It simply isn't technically possible to have two people playing the same game without having the same pieces to play with. I can't think of any other game like this that does it differently for the same reasons, be it FPS, RTS, wargame, or whatever. The problem is the data needs to be available to the local computer, and sending 200-300mb of textures and what not around isn't a viable solution. Er... especially because then one guy buys the module and then every guy he plays with suddenly has it too. That's just not going to happen

Steve

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

You'd both need the same Module to play with the content of that Module (base Titles will always be able to play against each other). That's because data needs to be local. If you don't have common data, how can you possibly play the same thing?

To expand upon this slightly...

It simply isn't technically possible to have two people playing the same game without having the same pieces to play with. I can't think of any other game like this that does it differently for the same reasons, be it FPS, RTS, wargame, or whatever. The problem is the data needs to be available to the local computer, and sending 200-300mb of textures and what not around isn't a viable solution. Er... especially because then one guy buys the module and then every guy he plays with suddenly has it too. That's just not going to happen

Steve

That's logic.

That rises the next question. Since one player must make the setup, doesn't this mean that a first turn must be exchanged to determine which settings are available for both sides and which not?

Example, the main game cover operation phase June-August, module A covers side aspect xy in August and September, module B covers side aspect yz in August. At some point it will be possible to get a doctor title about "The compatibility of CM2x titles and moduls for H2H gaming".

If my thinking here is not completly wrong, something like this would be necessary:

Player A sets his password, the CM2x program of Player A creates some kind of statement that simply tells the CM2x of Player 2 'Player A has title x and module 1 & 3, now we know whats possible, let Player 2 make a setup with the possible settings'.

[Battlefront.com]

We haven't coded up multi-player yet, but yes... there will have to be some method of determining who has what. This will likely be done prior to getting to a setup screen. Meaning, the two systems will most likely be in synch with each other prior to selection options. But I guess you are talking about PBEM. We'll probably just require people to not be stupid and figure out in PBEM which Module they want to play in and make sure both have it. It is a lot to ask of people... but we're (semi) confident that something this simple can be handled without us having to code all sorts of crap to do what one email could acheive.

Steve

[Scipio]

I adore your optimism

BTW, if we still have a)quickbattle maps and b)have to play them blind, then please consider this:

1) PlayerA makes the setup, select his units and sets his password.

2) Same for PlayerB

3) CM2 creates the map.

That way it should be impossible for PlayerA to take a look on the map before he sends it to PlayerB as in CM1

[dalem]

We already have to synch up version numbers "by hand". Shouldn't be any harder to ask "do you have 1.01 of "Space Lobsters: Killer Steam" or do you just have the original "SL: The Molting"?

-dale

[Barrold]

Sorry Dude, my copy of "SL:TM" hasn't arrived, but I did just get the "SL: Guns or Butter" module that was back-ordered.

BFS5

[Paul AU]

I’m sure CMx2 will be great, and I’ve read BFC’s whys and wherefores about their new “thin slice” policy.

But I’d like to ‘me-too’ what BloodyBucket said, (and continue with his meaning of the term ‘module’).

"CM1 had too many goodies, too long a playlife, and you had better get those idea out of your pointy little heads right now", is how I read it too.

“Perhaps I'm one of the guys to blame for the whole module idea, as I was happy enough with CM not to be lured in to purchasing CMBB and CMAK.”

I only ever bought BB. I considered AK a ‘module’. I’m think that I’m going to be annoyed by the “collect the whole set!” marketing path. It’s a shame that BFC will ‘never’ do a CM:BB again.

The (well, a) good thing about CM:BB was that it has such depth, ‘goodies’ and shelf-life. That’s a large part of what made it the huge stand-out that it was. I think I’m feeling disappointed that there’ll never be such a stand-out again from BFC. It feels like Sid Meier saying, “Glad you liked ‘Civilisation’”, but Civ II is going to be released in modules of geographically specific 20-year game-time-periods.”

"You can't have everything...where would you put it?" - Steven Wright

[flamingknives]

Gotta buy them all!

Honestly, I don't understand this

"Harumph, I'm not being as massively spoilt rotten as I was last time, so I shan't fork out the greatly reduced price for something that I'll play more than most, if not all, games I'll buy before CMX2 comes out. Hmmm, that Squad Assault looks worthy of $50"

Not buy CM? That'd be like not breathing.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Modules will be distributed in cereal boxes. Collect them all!

[KG_Cloghaun]

Some people in this thread have asked the question and I don't think it's been answered yet. Could you tell us- if we have an East Front title game for example, with say 3 subsequent modules for the Eastern Front title, can we compile all the different units from each module for that title?

I realize we won't be mixing a Napoleonic title with WW1 modules, etc,..

My apologies if this has already been covered somewhere else.

Thank you

[Lars]

Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

Modules will be distributed in cereal boxes. Collect them all!

Hmmm, maybe if they put a nice miniature inside...

[juan_gigante]

Oh, but we'd need like 6 UPCs and $10 shipping to get the title itself.

[Mord]

I decided to don my waders after I got to page two just incase Dalem decides to whip it out again...I've got a helluva rash with all that pee flyin'.

Anyhoo...on to my main worry seeing that we are kinda on that topic. As far as troop types (nationalities) and equipment go will we eventually have what we had like in say CMBO or CMAK. Now I understand it won't be an all in one as far as the Title goes but what about the Modules? How far will you guys take a particular Title as far as support goes. I personally have no problem paying extra per module to get all the cool and obscure stuff and settings. I actually like the idea better than an all in one title. There is alot of advantages to that especially terrain wise. I guess my worry is that there will be like one type of US force versus one type of German force and we won't have that option of playing Gebirsjager Vs Canadians or SS versus Brit Paras and the like. Would you guys be willing to release modules that are centered around equipment and TOE's and the like?

Like I have stated before in other threads I myself love the diversity of weapons, AFV's and troop types. They are interesting as well as educational. Believe it or not the games were a big part of kicking off my on going education with WWII. But I digress. I just hope that it won't be like 10 vehicles per side and one troop type per side.

Tell me something cool Steve so that I can reciprocate some yellow lovin'in Dalem's direction. Hold me, shush me and tell me everything will be ok.

Mord.

[ September 09, 2005, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Mord ]