Old timers - How does this kerfuffle compare with the release of CMBO?

[vetacon]

Haven't started playing yet (on a mac and currently setting up the whole bootcamp thing - should be playing later today), but seems like Steve and the team are taking a hammering.

I was wondering if the old timers could tell us how the apparent uproar and constant stream of complaints / bug reports compares with the release of CMBO (I wasn't aware of CM when CMBO first came out).

What I'm getting at is are Steve and co sitting there thinking, "Seen it all before, this is just what we expected" or are all these problems comparatively serious?

You won't catch me complaining incidentally; $40 (20GBP) is really nothing for a game this niche. Even if it starts out super-buggy I'd rather have that than nothing and you know Battlefront will patch everything up pretty quickly.

Look forward to your responses.

[thewood]

I actually don't think it is that much different. Even some of the technical issue. I remember reading the support forums on CMBO's release and there were a lot of people there having issues too. Anyone remember the fog issues with some cards?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

BFC will quickly sort out anything that needs it and go through patch cycles, just the way they did with BO, BB, and AK.

[Joe Shaw]

One big difference was that BTS (at that time) had a demo that had been out for literally months and had been played to death by hundreds of people so many of the technical glitches were worked out.

I don't recall but I don't believe that there had a been a recent OS change such as we've just seen with Vista. And, of course, graphics cards weren't as sophisticated as they are now.

Finally, the whole CM concept was such a WOW that many of the quibbles were overshadowed. Now the community has come to expect CMBO/BB/AK performance from a totally new engine, and one that shows tremendous promise.

That being said, there were complaints and suggestions and quibbles from day one about why did you do this when you should have done that and so forth. And they never stopped, just search for "Borg Spotting" or "Running HMGs" and you'll get an eyeful.

My bottom line is this, I trust BFC. I trust them to listen to the community and to take action to resolve issues as soon as possible. In my case I have no issues, it runs fine on my machine, but I can certainly sympathize with those who are having issues. After all ... I bought Silent Hunter IV

Joe

[Steiner14]

One thing for me is sure: if it is possible to solve a problem, the Battlefronts will not rest until it is solved.

[ParaBellum]

Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

My bottom line is this, I trust BFC. I trust them to listen to the community and to take action to resolve issues as soon as possible. In my case I have no issues, it runs fine on my machine, but I can certainly sympathize with those who are having issues. After all ... I bought Silent Hunter IV

Joe

I totally agree with what Joe Sh...waitaminute... :mad:

[André]

Wow, this is my first post in these forums for many years!

Been playing CF for one day now, and I remembered the good old CMBO days. The new game is of course very different, but it does have the magic CM formula in it.

I just finshed the first campaign battle, after 3 tries. Last time around it was a total victory. Think I smoked 20+ enemy tanks without loosing a single vehicle myself. It was very fun! Now its battle 2 and I get my ass handed to me again. A couple of more tries.... Got to get back to the game!

[sage2]

To the OP, IIRC, CMBO launch was significantly smoother than this. I recall that the demo had been played to death by me, and most of the small complaints I and other folks had had been addressed in the launch.

[mike_in_texas]

As a satisfied customer from the days of CMBO, BB and AK, I pretty much concur with what most others (Joe, Steiner, et al) have already said, especially in regards to trusting BFC and them not resting until the bugs are fixed, which can be fixed.

Mike

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

One big difference was that BTS (at that time) had a demo that had been out for literally months and had been played to death by hundreds of people so many of the technical glitches were worked out.

I don't recall but I don't believe that there had a been a recent OS change such as we've just seen with Vista. And, of course, graphics cards weren't as sophisticated as they are now.

Finally, the whole CM concept was such a WOW that many of the quibbles were overshadowed. Now the community has come to expect CMBO/BB/AK performance from a totally new engine, and one that shows tremendous promise.

That being said, there were complaints and suggestions and quibbles from day one about why did you do this when you should have done that and so forth. And they never stopped, just search for "Borg Spotting" or "Running HMGs" and you'll get an eyeful.

My bottom line is this, I trust BFC. I trust them to listen to the community and to take action to resolve issues as soon as possible. In my case I have no issues, it runs fine on my machine, but I can certainly sympathize with those who are having issues. After all ... I bought Silent Hunter IV

Joe

I agree, i am still stucked with that vista left click crash glitch. But i love watch the battles in spectator mode. ToW had problems with dual core, they are mostly sorted out, but many people had quit by then.

Eventualy a workaround and a patch will come out. Just have to be patient.

Have i said already the game is beautyfull to look at, too bad i am not allowed to touch the goodies.

[LGMB]

ToW

Was so disappointing, given how long it was under development.

[Moon]

What I'm getting at is are Steve and co sitting there thinking, "Seen it all before, this is just what we expected" or are all these problems comparatively serious?

Interesting how perceptions can differ. So far it's been one of the most smooth releases we ever had. Nothing we've seen so far is unexpected, except for perhaps one or two crashbugs, which are our top priority to fix. We've seen it all before, literally, when CMBB came out. It broke with a number of things CMBO established, and there was a HUGE uproar. Now CMBB is probably played more often then CMBO (or CMAK).

We knew from the beginning when planning CMSF that this would happen again. We wanted much more than just a revamped CMBO. Many of the new concepts are so deep I am sure nobody posting to the forum here even grasped half of it, and most comments are made from the perspective of CMx1 play. That's understandable and nothing to be ashamed of, of course. It will take time for things to sink in.

Martin

[YankeeDog]

I first discovered and started playing CMBO after it had been released, but before the final patch. So I missed the initial, demo-only testing period. I was there for some of the "kerfluffles" about game functions and features, whether they really worked like they should, etc.

CMBO had an incremental development process, and, as mentioned, hardware was somewhat simpler back then. But even after full release, there were still some fairly serious performance bugs that were still being chased down when I bought the game. I actually experienced a couple myself. So I don't find some of the performance problems that people are experiencing now all that surprising. I'm sure they'll get cleared up fairly quickly as time goes on. Given the proliferation of operating systems, the sheer number of video cards on the market, etc., it's simply impossible for a small company like BFC to test even a majority of the possible configurations.

The complaints about the game interface and modeling are more interesting. . . There have always been disagreements about how things "should" work in the CM series; a survey of the boards will turn up lengthy discussions about what game features are "unrealistic" or unwieldy, how they should be changed. I think the BFC crew would not dispute that some of the most important improvements to the CMx1 series were a direct result of BFC listening to, particpating in, and learning from these discussions.

However, speaking as an outsider for the moment (my current system isn't powerful enough to play CM:SF), it does seem to me that many more of the complaints so now are based on the game not matching people's pre-conceived expectations, rather than appoaching the game with an open mind, and evaluating it on its own merits, be they good or bad. That didn't happen so much with CMBO, because there really wasn't anything else out there to compare it to. Occasionally, people would make comparative references to Close Combat, but that was about it.

But I guess I'll find out for myself in a few month when I get around to upgrading my system. In the meantime, you all keep finding those bugs, so I can experience the game as perfect on the first outing!

Cheers,

YD

[Battlefront.com]

Good discussion. Well, here is my perspective on this...

Things are going BETTER than expected. We had some technical headaches to deal with, but we've got almost all of them sorted out within less than 24 hours of release. That's damned good! There are still some things to sort through, and we want to look at perhaps making some code changes if possible, but almost everybody is up and running now with very few exceptions. So on the technical front, we are actually somewhat relieved!

The general response has been overwhelming positive, even considering the general way customers respond to new things Joe Shaw was right (damn... there is that odd contradiction again!) when he said that CMBO was a different beast. However, he was wrong (there, everything is right with the world again!) because he forgot that when the initial Beta Demo was put out there was a HUGE response.

We had to stop work on CMBO for almost a week just to deal with the response. Much of it was positive, but OH MY GOD were the negative people vocal and prolific. A big war started between us and the Close Combat forum, with some of their guys coming over onto ours to be, well, basically to be dickheads on purpose (most hadn't even tried the demo at that point, just looked at screenshots). Pretty much everybody thought the graphics sucked ass too. And there were plenty of technical issues too, especially since it was in Beta at the time.

So how is it this time around? So far, muuuuuuuch better than expected. Still some things to deal with, but that is normal.

Steve

[ July 28, 2007, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[Grumbling Grognard]

As I remember the grogs on this forum knew what to expect because the demo was released before the game. SO, graphics complaints, etc were already delt with and if you did not want your games looking as CM:BO did...you were long gone by release date. The forum regulars were pleased as pie (for the most part) when CM:BO was released. Of course we had nit picky items, and some had serious compatibility issues (thank goodness I did not 'back then'...now is another topic). I am sure I will be "corrected", but I honestly don't remember anyone that migrated from the "Beyond Squad Leader" forums (as I did) complain about the turn system, OOBs (too much) or other things that seem to be topics with this game.

As alwyas just my over-priced two cents.

[Primarch]

The more I hear about CMBO demo it seems to be more like a public beta than a demo. I think CMSF would have benfited from a short term public beta.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Xipe66]

Originally posted by Grumbling Grognard:

As I remember the grogs on this forum knew what to expect because the demo was released before the game.

This line is key. This is more about expectations (from setting to functionality) than it is about bugs that will be fixed. This is probably both due to (mis)communication and strong conservative feelings around what the CM-experience (should) entail.

Maybe it would have been better to simply change the series' name with the new engine.

A Battlefront Forum closed beta would possibly also have helped (with bugs if nothing else).

I'm pretty happy about it thus far though (I'm Swedish, we don't complain - also, it's what I hoped for; bar some bugs and smallish features I'm hoping will be added in time).

[Xipe66]

QUOTE is not EDIT

[Mace]

Originally posted by sage2:

To the OP, IIRC, CMBO launch was significantly smoother than this.

Then again, there was no earlier version of CM to compare with when CMBO was released, so everything about it was completely new to us.

One big 'discussion/argument' I can recall with a subsequent CM release however was with the HE 'shock wave' animation that was changed between CMBO and CMBB.

Some players preferred the CMBO version, others the CMBB version, and discussions would get quite passionate as a result.

[hoolaman]

Having seen a few BFC relesases go off on the forums now, I almost dont see anyone "taking a hammering".

The first few hours were full of "congratulations BFC!" (which I heartily agree with). After a bit of playing people start making bug reports and feature requests (although that sometimes comes in the form of incessant grumbling).

Gamers consider it their right and their duty to complain about things they don't like and tell the devs about bugs they have found, but the positive points, while often reflecting the majority, get drowned out.

I haven't heard of any major showstopping bugs, or any massive omissions. The game was obviously released with the assumption that development would continue while it was out in the big bad world, but those of us who have seen it before know that the patches will come.

So all in all good work guys!

[vetacon]

Thanks all. I play practically no other titles besides this, so perhaps my perception of the volume of issues / gripes wasn't balanced properly due to a lack of context.

Great to hear anyway that Steve and Moon are relaxed about how things are going.

One tying I would say though is that I continue to be surprised at people's expectation from such a tiny organisation.

If a need to get the cash flowing in led to the game being released two or three months before its absolute optimum as regards ironing out all issues, or a few items being excluded, who can blame Battlefront? The commercial reality is that a business requires cash to operate, and although other titles have been released since CMAK, I'm guessing none of those generate cash for Battlefront at anything more than a fraction of the rate of a CM release (either because they're less popular or they're only released under licence and much less of the margin hits Battlefront's bank account).

Anyhows, just partitioned my Mac's drive for Bootcamp so hopefully within half an hour or so I'll be playing rather than posting. Looks like there's a good Mac support thread, courtesy of Mikey D, if i get any problems, so here goes...