Are AT Explosions a little over cooked.

[Rod]

I hit a stryker with a Tow and it had a massive explosion which took down an adjacent building. Actually this happened three times in the same game. Also the fireballs for AT rounds in general seem pretty big. Like multi story building big. Is this a result of a catastrophic hit as in CM1. Also on this point if there are catastrophic hits it would be nice if the resulting fire was raging a bit more then the little camp fire sprites.

Just wondering.

P.s. Then again maybe maybe it is accurate. Would love to see this sort of fire in SF though.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Don't know about the realism for these big bangs.

The 'camp fire' thing does look plain odd though. Damage models would be a great visual addition.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by rodbrew:

Just wondering.

P.s. Then again maybe maybe it is accurate. Would love to see this sort of fire in SF though.

In these demonstrations the vehicles are usually filled with explosives.

Also, I have seen this video labeled as a Javelin hit.

[Renaud]

But combat loaded T72's ARE filled with explosives.

When a T72 (or t55, 62, etc.) is hit in combat by a 120mm APFSDSDU-T, it explodes alright. If the turret doesn't simply launch, along with the engine, you see massive blowtorches of flame shooting up out of the hatches, like 20 feet high for an extended period of time.

However the non-kill hits, such as a AP hit from 125mm on the front turret of a M1, make large HE type explosions which are weird. Not that I actually know what that should look like. According to an account of the 1st AD in ODS, one M1 took a 125mm sabot in the turret and it simply stuck there like a big knitting needle, half embedded. I believe a non-penetrating hit should look more like what the arty impacts look like, with the particle shower.

I think it's safe to say a stryker will immolate if hit by a TOW. But take down buildings? That's kind of like the old nuclear explosions in CMx1 which occured when buildings collapsed.

[SgtMuhammed]

I kind of feel that the ATGM explosions are a bit much as well. I just don't think the Javelin is going to make a crater big enough to stick a fireteam in.

A sabot hit looks like a shower of sparks. Of course a secondary explosion can follow but they don't make big fireballs from the hit itself.

HEAT rounds direct their explosive force towards the target and so have a lesser blast effect than a like size he round.

This is a good clip of a TOW against a BMP. Lots of sparks and dust but pretty localized. Certainly not enough to take down nearby buildings.

TOW in A-stan

At weapons have a lot of energy and can produce very spectacular results but they tend to be channeled into a small area. Which, of course, is the whole point since it is trying to cut through some of the hardest stuff known to man.

[Battlefront.com]

The secondary ATGM hits are definitely too powerful. We toned down a few of them just before releasing, but I guess we didn't get all of them. The specific combo that we didn't like was the secondary effect of taking down a building. That shouldn't happen. Well, not if the building was in good shape beforehand.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

rodbrew,

Just checking... a TOW hit on a Stryker? You were playing Blue on Blue?

Steve

[Rod]

Roger that. Which reminds me is there a minimum range for some of these missiles. The Bradley sat there looking at it for two or three rounds probably 60m away. I backed it off probably 40m and it finally launched.

[Sergei]

I've read that TOW would have an arming range of 65 metres. In general it can be said that most ATGM's have a safe zone of 50-70 metres, except the older Soviet missiles like AT-3 which have far greater minimum range.

http://www.cavalrypilot.com/fm17-12/ch2.htm

[Rod]

Sergei,

Good to know, be nice to have that info on the targeting tool as in CM1 for us casual grogsters.

Steve,

Any chance of getting my old member # back. 501. I figure it will add more weight to my "3D bah, the only way worth playing is from the top view anyway" thread I'm going to start.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Originally posted by Renaud:

I think it's safe to say a stryker will immolate if hit by a TOW. But take down buildings? That's kind of like the old nuclear explosions in CMx1 which occured when buildings collapsed.

*deep sigh in nostalgic memory*

We need more of those shock waves. Completely OTT but soooo cool. :cool:

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The secondary ATGM hits are definitely too powerful. We toned down a few of them just before releasing, but I guess we didn't get all of them. The specific combo that we didn't like was the secondary effect of taking down a building. That shouldn't happen. Well, not if the building was in good shape beforehand.

Steve

One of the reasons the US felt the need to develope bunker buster versions of their AT systems was to increase their destructive power against enemy buildings and fortifications. An AT4 hitting a cement wall will punch a neat 84mm hole through the wall and spray the inside of the room with shrapnel but it won't take down the wall.

I just recently had an AT14 destroy a 3 story building with a single shot and a Javelin destroy a floor with a shot as well. That's just a tad over powered. During operations in Mogadishu the US fired 16 TOW missiles into a meeting of Somali warlords. Not only did the building not come down but there were survivors in the room.

[Battlefront.com]

Rod, I locked up your new one (one per person), put your current email address into #501, and emailed you your password. You should be good to go!

Steve

[Bertram]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Rod, I locked up your new one (one per person), put your current email address into #501, and emailed you your password. You should be good to go!

Steve

You *want* him to promote the top view only battle???

[Rod]

Thanks Steve. Umm now I feel old.

Top down Rulz...

[GriffinCheng+]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I've read that TOW would have an arming range of 65 metres. In general it can be said that most ATGM's have a safe zone of 50-70 metres, except the older Soviet missiles like AT-3 which have far greater minimum range.

http://www.cavalrypilot.com/fm17-12/ch2.htm

I guess that is exactly why in a bvb game, the M2 keeps ping enemy stryker with cannon only...

Thank you very much.

[Caesar]

I just used Javelins against buildings that were loaded with bad guys. I was surprised to see the first building knocked flat by a single missile hit. Is this realistic?

The 12 missiles that I got in the mission were to flatten about 7 or 8 buildings. A couple of them had to be hit more than once and the odd one or two had taken a number of hits from the 40mm on the Stryker. Just how much HE do Javelins carry?

[jomni]

We always like things that go KA-BOOOM!

[dischord]

Originally posted by rodbrew:

P.s. Then again maybe maybe it is accurate. Would love to see this sort of fire in SF though.

I hope that bird is okay.

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

During operations in Mogadishu the US fired 16 TOW missiles into a meeting of Somali warlords. Not only did the building not come down but there were survivors in the room.

Curious: Why 16 TOWs? Aren't there more effective anti-warlord weapons?

Another TOW vid. Looks like not a whole lot of penetration taking place, and what on earth is that thing that jumps up off the ground just before impact in the close-up?

[Darius359au]

its a bird , unluckiest critter in the world there :eek: if you watch the slomo carefully you see it get caught in the blast while trying to fly away and flop to the ground.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by dischord:

Why 16 TOWs? Aren't there more effective anti-warlord weapons?

What would have fitted the conditions and ROE better? TOW, being designed to hit a vehicle sized object, is accurate enough to hit one building or even one window in that building. Helicopter based it could be used without much risk, from distance and altitude. Also I suppose Cobras can't carry Hellfires?

[MikeyD]

I have spotted my RPG or RCCL run round detonate against s Bradley with a realitvely small 'boom' immediately followed by a massive BOOM! I assume the penetration touched off something, like that rack of TOWS or stowed demo charges.

In the game the nastier the antitank weapon the bigger the BOOM. A Kornet hit will rock your world, and BFC seems to have modeled the TOW among the big explosion weapons. AT4 and AT-4 (the U.S. LAW and Syrian ATGM) have less impressive explosions.