Rod

Strykers don't use the Javelins that just shows you they are on board. You need to use the acquire button while your troops are mounted to assign them the Javelins. Make sure you get the launcher also. Note you can also replenish your other ammo there.

... how about the game takes a snapshot of the disposition of all the units at a given time interval that can be played back after the game. Maybe just interpolate the motion between steps. This would at least give some feedback to you after you play a game about how well your tactics worked. Whether you almost walked into an ambush ect ect. I think Sid Meiers Gettysburg did something like this just but used regimental blocks or something. Anyway due to the massive amount of data generated I'm resigned to the fact that a full game replay is probably never going to happen but this way very little data has to be stored and will at least give you some feedback at the end about how well your tactics worked or didn't. I think it would add a lot to the enjoyment of my victories. Just an idea to kick around for awhile. Rod

Eisenhower should of called a do-over when the DD-Tanks failed to make the beach. Some of my most interesting games have been when things don't go right. It forces you to adjust your plan and your goals but when it works it's just that much more satisfying. IMHO. Rod

Check out this video. Pretty good example of what your discussing here. Rod

Hoolaman, Thanks for the link. Yep that's pretty much what happened. c3k, Initially my 1st squad was ordered to the 1st floor of that building. They ended up going around the block and got clobbered. I placed the waypoint for the movie just outside so it was easier to see the door. As it turns out they can't even get to the door so yeah there must be a problem with the wall. It would be a little different if they got to the door and realized they forgot the key. Some feedback would be nice. Not sure how they would do it. I'm assuming the real time engine doesn't really know where it is going until it gets there so as far as it knows everything is fine. Actually I had one scenario that I always used to test out the new patches. It had always had some quirky behavior. I was trying to play that one but hit this one instead. I'll try the other one again and see if the same problems arise. To me it seems that the action spots and the 3d geometry are still to close to the same scale. I'm thinking that more action spots are needed without allowing the map designers to use the extra underlying resolution. Right now there seems to be a small margin of error.

Playing Al Amarah with v1.10 there are a series of buildings with a door behind L shaped high walls. I try to execute my strategy which depends on me getting into these doors. After several rounds I'm finally ready to move in only to watch my guys move from in plain site of the door back around the wall clear down the block and around the corner and are thenambushed. Instantly I lose interest in continuing to play. Here's the video of the situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmWZn0_cLnY I hope this is just an isolated instance but since I've basically waited until this version to really start playing the Shock Force scenarios and as this was my first one I'm kind of off to a bad start. Best Regards, Rod

Hey James, Are you sure about that. What if in RT only 100 computer cycles can be allocated for this to maintain a certain framerate while in WEGO 10000 cycles could be dedicated or theoretically as many cycles as you deem necessary. Rod

DzrtFox, Oh I agree LOS/LOF is probably the biggest problem along with pathfinding and TAI, but I suspect (I don't presume to know the coding) it is in large part because of RT limitations. If not for RT could we have a 4m grid or even a 2m grid. Could each soldier be tracked for LOS instead of apparently the leader or midpoint or whatever. Yeah it might take more time to compute but for more accurate results I don't mind. I just thought the CM concept worked great with the limiting factor being how fast you can draw an accurate scene. Not how fast you can draw an accurate scene, calculate TAI, calculate proper LOS, track every bullet ect... But to go back to the topic I do hope a marine module makes it better especially for WEGO in which case I would buy it to support BFC. But in general I'm one who wanted a better CM-1 but feel I got CC3D instead and thats just not going to change with this engine. I also wonder, being I built a high end PC just for this game, what it is going to take to properly run CMWWII in hedgerow country.

Sadly I'm also pretty disappointed. I feel this game is more a 3-D version of Close Combat then the advancement of Combat Mission. I know under the hood it is vastly superior to CM-1 but I don't think visually it plays out that well. I had concerns about realtime and one to one soldiers but I thought BFC could pull it off. I admit the one to one is not bad especially with the floating icons to help find the two pixel troopers off in the distance but it does seem the underlying grid doesn't match up due to realtime necessities. Overall I just think WEGO is too handicapped by the necessities of realtime and really just comes off as an after thought and a hindrance. I will always wonder what this game could of been if it stayed foremost a WEGO game. (Not meant to start a RT/WEGO debate) I guess I'm just out of luck.

This could get interesting.

And another point. You can't maneuver within the setup zone on the first turn. Not a huge issue but can definitely have an impact depending on the setup zone. Seems like another wego oversight to me.

Any word on whether we will be able to cancel an accidental Bail Out command. Rod

Hey Compton, I think the key mapping issue has already been addressed in the new patch which is due out any time now. So good news on that front.

I don't recall seeing these requests so here they are. After suffering my first couple of crashes playing SF I'm wondering if there is any chance of bringing back the autosave feature. Every turn for wego and maybe every minute or two in RT. Also would it be possible to add a separate set-up phase in WEGO. Currently its kind of a pain if the set up area is fairly large and you have to maneuver to get out of it on the first turn. Maybe its just a matter of decoupling the movement commands from the placement and add a simple position command that only works on the first turn. Being able to "uncheck" the bailout command or any other similar commands. Please get rid of the temporary halt at waypoints for infantry especially if they are the same movement type. If this is standard procedure so be it but if I tell a squad to go around a house it doesn't seem like they need to regroup at each corner. Just food for thought. Thanks. That is all... Rod [ August 09, 2007, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Rod ]

Bimmer, Overall I liked it a lot. I don't know really how else to do the hot start. If your playing a game and there is only one town you know something is going to happen so you could unfairly prepare. I didn't mind it as long as the play balance reflects this. So here is how it went down... ************* SPOILER ALERT ******************** I immediately dismounted the forward group sending the infantry to the nearest cover. This turned out bad when the IED went off. Missed the stryker but clobbered one squad and part of an HQ. The remaining squads basically took cover in the walled compound with another squad in the trees off to the east side of the road. This group mainly just kept the orchard and the road leading to it under suppressing fire. They took quite a few casualties on the roofs so they couldn't do anything offensive for the time being. I mostly kept the strykers hidden until I knew what was out there. The back group I raced up the road toward the center of the main road. Once again the IED missed but wounded two crew members. I dismounted the infantry there with One MG team going up to the roof of the 2nd story building with the high wall and another on the lower roof. One squad went to the roof of the low building just past the entrance to that middle side road. Another to the low roof with the 2nd MG team and another squad to a building on the east side of the road to cover back down the road. Both groups basically just shot it out without out much maneuvering for five or six turns. The one stryker I lost was when I moved one to cover the middle side road when I thought it was safe. Wrong he got hit by an AT squad in the house at the end of the road. At this point I noticed the syrians start to maneuver off to the southwest but the MG Squad on the high wall roof kept them in check. Eventually I had to send them for ammo so I replaced them with the other MG squad. Bout this time I sent my reserve squad leapfrogging up the center road with little resistance. I did try to use one Javelin to take out the top of the high building off to the NW part of town. The javelin overshot and exploded harmlessly in the trees to the west. Meanwhile the front group had suppressed the orchard and road leading to it so I decided to load up a couple of stykers with the survivors of one squad and the squad in the trees to the east and do an end around assault on the orchard. Once I did that it became more of a mopping up operation as I squeezed in from the north. The final casualties were taken when I tried to rush a sniper team to the roof of main building toward the NW corner of town. A HQ team that was left in one of the building opened up on them. Lessoned learned...suppression fire. Result Major US victory although failed on US casualties and US Condition but succeeded on objectives and syrian casualties and condition. Interesting that Syrians actually had more points in the end something like 3000 to 2000. So I'm still not sure how victories are determined. **************END SPOILER *********************** Just curious do you design scenarios with a particular play style in mind (RT v. WEGO)

BOOM$LANG, ... and probably multi multi player.

Steve made a comment in another thread talking about the benefits of not having to wait for a turn to pre compute and mentioned a huge scenario that took 15 minutes to compute. This was an extreme example but my response is that it was still fundamentally playable. Now I just played a game where I had a BMP scoot in front of a MGS Stryker at about 20 yards and was blasting away at it. It put round after round on the Stryker as it passed. The problem is that the gun couldn't rotate fast enough to keep up with the shots resulting in the shots leaving the end of the barrel at nearly a 45 degree angle. Now this could be a bug or an abstraction. If its an abstraction is it because of limits placed on it by RT. I don't know but this kind of thing kills the immersion factor for me more then things like not having the trees sway in the breeze. In any case this is all theoretical, they are not going back. I'm just hoping going forward some improvements are made. I have faith.

It sure does seem like our patron saint of WEGO has somewhat gone over to the dark side. I've tried to follow I really have and I can actually see myself playing that way (solo) if some sort of VCR function was added where maybe the last 10 or 20 seconds of action could always be replayed. When I hear that boom off to my left I could then go investigate. KNac, On your first point I have friends who are only casual gamers and when they occasionally want to do battle I don't think they would appreciate my command of keyboard having a profound effect on the outcome of the battle. On the second point no matter how fast computers get there is still a greater limit on the number of units you can effectively control in RT. Maybe some day you can have multiple monitors covering multiple views and brainwave detectors to issue orders. Would be cool but sounds exhausting. My personal preference is battles on a slightly grander scale so for me that limits RT appeal for for the time being.

Thanks Steve. Umm now I feel old. Top down Rulz...

Sergei, Good to know, be nice to have that info on the targeting tool as in CM1 for us casual grogsters. Steve, Any chance of getting my old member # back. 501. I figure it will add more weight to my "3D bah, the only way worth playing is from the top view anyway" thread I'm going to start.

Roger that. Which reminds me is there a minimum range for some of these missiles. The Bradley sat there looking at it for two or three rounds probably 60m away. I backed it off probably 40m and it finally launched.

I hit a stryker with a Tow and it had a massive explosion which took down an adjacent building. Actually this happened three times in the same game. Also the fireballs for AT rounds in general seem pretty big. Like multi story building big. Is this a result of a catastrophic hit as in CM1. Also on this point if there are catastrophic hits it would be nice if the resulting fire was raging a bit more then the little camp fire sprites. Just wondering. P.s. Then again maybe maybe it is accurate. Would love to see this sort of fire in SF though.

I believe Steve has stated in the past that part of the reason for not doing WWII with the new engine first is because they felt that once they hashed out all the requirements for modern conflict such as communications and artillery support it would be easier to go back and then do WWII. Looking at some of the problems they are currently having it's looking like a good choice. The new engine should be much more refined for the Crème de la Crème of Western Front WWII. I think a lot of people wanted them to revisit the Western Front with the CMAK engine.

Kind of on this same subject is there a way to tell what commands have been given other then the obvious target or move commands. For instance if you give an open command or a bail out command it doesn't seem to indicate that anywhere. When you jump from unit to unit its hard to tell you've already set up the orders for that unit. Unless I'm missing something.

Sorry if this is redundant, I haven't had a chance to read all the post. But why not use the fact that the U.S forces are stretched to the max to even the odds in Syria. Say for whatever reason boots on the ground are desperately needed in Syria. Say a high level kidnapping or maybe actionable intelligence that a nuclear weapon is in transit for use in Isreal. A stryker brigade or two is hastily moved in from Iraq all forces are rearrange to fill the void along with Iraqi forces. Fierce sand storms seriously hamper air support most of which has to fly from the gulf,the Med or Turkey. Insurgents in Iraq take advantage of the situation to further hamper movement and tie up reserves. Future modules might include a marine task force which is diverted to the Med since the Iranians are causing movement problems in the gulf. Granted the crisis would have to last long enough for the deployment. Further escalation brings Jordan and Lebanon into the mix which further mobilizes European contries. Just a thought. In general I would prefer the semi historical scenario using real world terrain. That is all, Rod