Darkmath Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Well, having BMP 3 and T90 (but still no 23mm AA vehicles) is great for more challenging blue vs red setting but... is that all? People who disliked premature releases of CMSF and haven't played again since, are not very enthusiastic about paying for 25$ (while CMSF is now sold for less than 15$) just for new TOEs features. Are there engine related (StratAI, TCPIP WEGO, )improvements in the module to come? Or would they be included in patches? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Originally posted by Darkmath: People who disliked premature releases of CMSF and haven't played again since, are not very enthusiastic about paying for 25$ (while CMSF is now sold for less than 15$) just for new TOEs features.:confused: Are there engine related (StratAI, TCPIP WEGO, ) improvements in the module to come? Or would they be included in patches? New features and improvements to the engine are definitely in the works!! From what I recall, these will also be patched back into CM:SF, regardless of whether you buy the module or not. This is not an official statement by any means, though. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuomio Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Whooping 25$ "just for" new military branch. What would be the correct price then? 1$? Free? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 *Shrug* If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy it. The price will probably come down eventually, after it's been out for a while and its no longer fresh. Myself, I've got no complaints about the price. $25 barely buys a half-decent meal out w/ a drink these days. A bunch of cool-looking new vehicle models, the attendant new units & weapons, and some new scenarios to play are definitely at least worth a house salad, the fish of the day, and a pint, to me. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 $25 these days is two people going to a sit-down movie theatre and sharing a single tub of popcorn. Actually, considering the recent fall of the greenback versus the Euro I wonder if BFC's going to need to rethink its module pricing policy. $25 in 2006 monies is not exactly the same as $25 in 2008 monies, especially if Europe is doing most of the purchasing. Maybe they'll require we pay them in Canadian dollars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 There will probably be some engine improvements and there will definitely be new scenarios and a new campaign, which I think is important. I'm more than willing to pay $25 for this. -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Originally posted by Tuomio: What would be the correct price then? 1$? Free? Believe it or not, someone has already requested this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Well, it's not my opinion : I think 25$ is a fair price (even more so with euros/dollar exchange rate ) , it has just happen that CMSF price has been lowered so that the module is more expensive than the title. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 'Someone' - whoever they are - may get their request, at least partially. I think Steve had mentioned that any 'reasonable-size' game engine improvements that appear in the modules would be accompanied by patches for the base game (gotta keep everything compatible, you know). The question is of course, if you've been playing CMSF long enough to take advantage of multiple game patches wouldn't you also like CMSF enough to pick up a MAJOR upgrade with all those accompanying scenarios/campaigns to play? That's like saying "I've been with my girlfriend for months & months but I think I'll only bothergoing to 'second base' with her". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 If you discover the she has STDs and cellulite you might want to stop at second base 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Originally posted by Darkmath: Well, having BMP 3 and T90 (but still no 23mm AA vehicles) is great for more challenging blue vs red setting but... is that all? People who disliked premature releases of CMSF and haven't played again since, are not very enthusiastic about paying for 25$ (while CMSF is now sold for less than 15$) just for new TOEs features. Are there engine related (StratAI, TCPIP WEGO, )improvements in the module to come? Or would they be included in patches? While you might buy CMSF in a store at $15 (nine months after release that's obviously to be expected) this has no impact on the value of the expansion. In fact, it has no impact on what we think CMSF itself is "worth". Unlike other games who you simply have to put aside after playing them for a couple of weeks because they're not offering anything new, CMSF (and many other wargames) would deserve more price stability from retail. Of course it won't happen, and we knew it, and we can't change it anyway, but that doesn't mean that we have to agree with it. In fact, this price dumping by retail is one of the main reasons why we have moved to a primarily internet-based publishing model. Having said that, the Marines Module will offer quite a bit more than "just" new vehicles. Yes, there will be some game engine enhancements as well, new missions, a new campaign etc. Some of that stuff is still in works so we want to keep the details under wraps for now. For $25, it's a steal. Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Originally posted by MikeyD: $25 these days is two people going to a sit-down movie theatre and sharing a single tub of popcorn. Actually, considering the recent fall of the greenback versus the Euro I wonder if BFC's going to need to rethink its module pricing policy. $25 in 2006 monies is not exactly the same as $25 in 2008 monies, especially if Europe is doing most of the purchasing. Maybe they'll require we pay them in Canadian dollars Sounds like you mix up exchange rate and purchasing power. The exchange rate doesn't matter for BFC, since they get always 25$ for CMSF:Marines, while it is very good for me (as European), because I buy it for just ~17 €. Different story will be when each member of the BFC staff buys a second BMW and/or Porsche! Sorry, I know this is completly off-topic...I just couldn't resist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Just to mention what I based my opinion on. web page Featuring a familiar poster from this board... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Originally posted by Moon: Having said that, the Marines Module will offer quite a bit more than "just" new vehicles. Yes, there will be some game engine enhancements as well,...Looking forward to hearing more about that as soon as practical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Originally posted by Darkmath: Just to mention what I based my opinion on. web page Featuring a familiar poster from this board... Doesn't seems to me that the opinion about CMSF of the most people there is based on much own experiences; at least not with the actual version 1.08!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Originally posted by Darkmath: Well, having BMP 3 and T90 (but still no 23mm AA vehicles) is great for more challenging blue vs red setting but... is that all? People who disliked premature releases of CMSF and haven't played again since, are not very enthusiastic about paying for 25$ (while CMSF is now sold for less than 15$) just for new TOEs features. Are there engine related (StratAI, TCPIP WEGO, )improvements in the module to come? Or would they be included in patches? Who can say? I just picked up Europa Universalis III at the store for $10. At Paradox's Gamers Gate site, the year old $20 dollar Napoleon's Ambition expansion is the number one seller surpassing the month old new game EU Rome. Paradox is planning another $20 expansion to Europa Universalis III next month. Also a $15 expansion to the 4 and a half year old Crusader Kings which is also $10 or less if you can find it is still in the top ten. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Originally posted by Darkmath: Well, having BMP 3 and T90 (but still no 23mm AA vehicles) is great for more challenging blue vs red setting but... is that all? People who disliked premature releases of CMSF and haven't played again since, are not very enthusiastic about paying for 25$ (while CMSF is now sold for less than 15$) just for new TOEs features. Are there engine related (StratAI, TCPIP WEGO, )improvements in the module to come? Or would they be included in patches? The officials frequently answered to that already - there are no specific AI changes for CMSF:Marines, because the module uses the same core engine. In other words: all engine updates are for free, since they are always included in the free patches. Just my personal (narrow) view: I prefer PBEM anyway, so I don't miss TCP-IP. I'm very pleased that turn-based gaming works mostly fine now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 i guess i will be somewhat reluctant to buy the module when it comes out. probably i see if the price gets better, however 17€ isnt too bad to start with. however if CM:Normandy will feature a "real" TCPip WEGO(with replay and all that) iam back on the train as i also like the modern setting, actually. right now the big downside for me is that i cant play humans and i have had fun with single player but that wont keep up till the end of days. the time scripted AI doesnt help that either. so i wont get more if i will never be able to play a human in a convinient way. at the point i see that it will be possible CMx2 has me back so to say. about the module content; i am a bit puzzled that the US gets a truck but the syrians dont. i mean thats a no brainer. what purpous will the US truck have!? do marines really get deployed with trucks!? i cant imagine that. however i can imagine much use of indipendent trucks on the syrian side. to summ it up, i have no use of all the "new" awsome firepower if i cant use it against a human in a convinient way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishga Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Will we ever see flamethrowers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 i might buy the module just in hopes to get a good play with BMP-3. hopefully you can use its indirect fire configuration and something has been done to AFV weapon selection. BTW what comes to the price of CMSF, didn't it drop right after it came out, in something like a week or two? i sure hope the stores will be selling the WW2 title for practically nothing as well... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Originally posted by Pandur: [snip] what purpous will the US truck have!? do marines really get deployed with trucks!? i cant imagine that. however i can imagine much use of indipendent trucks on the syrian side. [snip] The closest thing they have to a general purpose APC is the Amphibious AAV-7. While the AAV-7 has an impressive carrying capacity, the Marines have less of them in the TOE than you'd think, and they're also not a very efficient people/cargo mover, being tracked and all. Overall, the AAV-7s are going to be prioritized to the point of the spear, and not many would be available to follow-on units or flank guards. The other APC/IFV the Marines have is the LAV-25. But with a max passenger capacity of 6, really more intended as a Recon IFV, than as a full-out APC. Of course, they have helicopters, too. But rotary wings are not a very efficent way of moving troops and supplies, especially over long distances. Good for limited time-critical movements of troops and supplies, but not the logistics train of a whole division. So, in general, a Marine unit on the advance is probably going to have more trucks closer to the point of contact than an analogous Army unit. This is not to say you'd see MTVR actually deliberately pushed forward into combat. But there's probably a greater chance of them being close enough to get caught in the action. As for Syrian trucks, I do agree it would be nice to see a larger unarmored transport of some kind on the red side. Hopefully, we'll see one in one of the later modules. However, its is worth noting that they already have the Toyota pickup. Considering that any Syrian vehicle in army colors is likely to get shot to pieces very early in the air campaign, it's probably not at all unrealistic to have Syrian infantry being shuttled around via requisitioned civilian pickup trucks. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Originally posted by undead reindeer cavalry: i might buy the module just in hopes to get a good play with BMP-3. hopefully you can use its indirect fire configuration and something has been done to AFV weapon selection. Not sure what you're looking for here, but at present, only off-map assets are capable of indirect fire in CMSF. Steve has stated that they are planning on getting on-map indirect fire into the game eventually, but I really doubt we'll see such a huge model feature added in a module -- probably something for the WWII release. So I doubt you'll see on-map indirect fire by BMP-3s. I suppose it's possible we'll see a 100mm arty unit, representing BMP-3s just off-map, tasked to fire indirect. Also worth noting that, while the BMP-3's targeting computer and 60 degree elevation do give it the capability for indirect fire, it uses one-piece ammunition, and so lacks any way to vary the charge. So it's nowhere near as capable of indirect fire as a dedicated indirect fire system such as a mortar or howitzer, which can vary angle as well as muzzle velocity; there would be substantial "dead zones" a map with any relief, which the BMP-3 would not be able to hit with direct fire. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Quick answers to remaining questions... One of the reasons why we got out of retail and started up Battlefront in 1997 was due to the long established indifference retail has for keeping prices up. One retailer was selling CM:SF at no profit before the game was even released. The price was about a penny away from being a violation of EU law, BTW. Others dump excess product the second they see sales drop below a certain number. Often that number is higher than it should be. A game like GTA4 probably sold more units in its first 5 minutes of release than all of the CMx1 and CMx2 games have sold in 7 years. Lucky Scottish bastards Anybody that follows entertainment software sales in retail knows that the days of picking up a PC title from mainstream retail are diminishing each day. Unfortunately, PC titles are also finally on their way out after years of dodging the gamebox bullet. Well, except for niches like us! Which is why we planned on having Modules for sale direct only. At least initially. BMP-3s will not have an indirect fire capability. I don't see how it is relevant to a CM style engagement any more than I see the WW2 Shermans being used in that role as relevant (which they were). The purpose of the vehicle is to move troops into position and then support them with direct fire. If they are to be used indirectly then it would be offmap by our definitions. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1812 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Hi All, As someone said earlier, we all get to vote with our money. My vote will be yes because I really like what the game and the system have evolved to. Marines, Brits, Germans, Canadians, World War 2. I can't wait. Regards John 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 deleted per user request 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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