How's everyone feeling about hull-down?

[ARRPEEGEE]

It seems to work better after contact is made, but..The tank will do some darned funny stuff under this command, including nothing at all.

I wonder how the CP process for this one works. Does it look for hull-down positions along it's current facing, threat, or just look for lower elevation, period?

[Captain Wacky]

I asked Matt about this, and he said that the tank will look for a spot that is hull down to the marker. As for your comment about the tank doing some funny stuff, the command is designed to work MUCH better with more experienced crews. I fooled around much with it, but I imagine green crews would do some pretty dumb things trying to find a hull down spot.

[ARRPEEGEE]

Ahh, so that's how it works!

Yep, I was attributing alot of the oddity to the crew, but..you never know.

[Liebchen]

This is, indeed, good to know. I was kind of wondering "hulldown in relation to WHAT?"

[mfred]

I had both KV's on a reverse slope and ordered hulldown to a panzer on a ridge in front of them. The previous turn they were firing at the panzer and they reversed out of los. Following the hulldown command they advanced back up the ridge and started firing and kept going over the ridge towards the panzer.

I'm probably using the command wrong, but hunt is fine by me

[Chad Harrison]

Personally, I will never use the command. I had to do it manually so many times in CMBO, that it comes as second nature to me now. Nice for beginners though.

Chad

[edgars]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

Personally, I will never use the command. I had to do it manually so many times in CMBO, that it comes as second nature to me now. Nice for beginners though.

Chad

Same here.

BTW, there's a nice addition to the LOS tool, that is: when LOS tool is pointed at certain spot in relation to which tank is hull down, the "Hull Down" label pops up under the tank.

[Sabrewolf]

isn't the hull down pop up text in CMBO as well, its certainly not new.

[Kuma of Finland]

Ciks: The hull-down text for both ends of LOS is in CMBO, too.

Question: how to properly use hull-down command?

Should I place the plot on top of the target like on 'Gun?' 500 m away or do I just place the plot to the furthest place I want tank to advance?

In first case this would work great as hull-down is always relative. In latter case I don't see any difference with hunt commmand. Or maybe it's just me (again)?

/kuma

[edgars]

No it wasn't in CMBO.

In CMBO Hull Down label poped up when using Target tool, and ONLY if you had enemy armor present to target. You couldn't point to a certain spot on the map, where enemy might appear, to tell if your tank has a hull-down position in relation to that spot.

In CMBB, it is shown using LOS tool and no need to point it at enemy armor.

[Bruce70]

The way I understand it the tank moves on the exact line you set until (and if) they reach a position that is hull down to the end-point. So yes you place the marker on the gun (or line of trees) that you want them to be hulldown to. I think this will be more useful in more irregular terrain. I agree that it does seem easier and less error prone to find a good hulldown position youself or, if you know there is a threat over a ridge, just use hunt.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Hull down to the end point?

/me sees sudden flash of blinding light

No wonder I was having probs! Atm I see myself using this in order to set up my AFV's in hull down ambush spots. Maybe the old Hunt command might be better to use when the enemy are already in view to the potential hull down position? Time and experience will tell I guess...

[Shosties]

Personally, I'm rather skeptical about this new command as I had a Pz IV behave much like mfred's KV-1. The Pz IV starting completely out of LOS from a KV, it crested the intervening hill and just kept on going. You'd think at some point along that line it must have been hull down to my designated point (smack on the KV's icon). Fortunately, one of the other Pz IVs had already taken out the KV, but that shouldn't have had any impact on that order. You should be able to give that command to an arbitrary point on the map (useful for setting up a quick ambush, if it works!).

[Hensworth]

What was the crew's experience ?

I've never done it, but imagine sitting in the turret of a tank and having to judge whether or not some terrain feature actually covers the hull of your tank from a target - through binoculars. It can't be an easy thing to do.

Being difficult to do translates to making a mess of it in CM terms. And that translates to tanks rolling blithely to their doom...

Calling all grogs ! Any evidence of tank crews getting training on how to find hull-down positions ?

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Bruce70:

The way I understand it the tank moves on the exact line you set until (and if) they reach a position that is hull down to the end-point. So yes you place the marker on the gun (or line of trees) that you want them to be hulldown to. I think this will be more useful in more irregular terrain. I agree that it does seem easier and less error prone to find a good hulldown position youself or, if you know there is a threat over a ridge, just use hunt.

Is this true?

Can someone confirm the correct use of the hulldown command?

Will the tank move along the line/path until it is hulldown to where you placed the endpoint (that little white square) of the Hulldown line/path??

:confused:

Does the tank still act like it is in the "Hunt" command while attempting to seek the ideal hulldown position.

Why is this command better than the old way of just use the "hunt" command up a hill to just before the the crest? (the old way)

Is it possible this command was not fully detailed, documented or explained somewhere?

OR did I just miss the Read-Me (RTFM) on it in my ZEAL to get right into the game??

Thanks

-tom w

[ September 05, 2002, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Kwazydog]

Although I admit I havnt used this command too much guys, as Im used to doing it myself , I do beleive it works as described as above.

Basically a tank will move along the patch until he reaches a point where he is hull down to the end of the Hull Down command. If you tank never can see this point, he wont stop. Its powerful I think, but you need to use it carefully!

Dan

[Thomm]

Is the tank in Hunt Mode while moving???

Regards,

Thomm

PS.: Did Charles like my idea?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly:

I've never done it, but imagine sitting in the turret of a tank and having to judge whether or not some terrain feature actually covers the hull of your tank from a target - through binoculars. It can't be an easy thing to do.

In real life? From what I've read, any tank crew with a little practice did it quite easily.

The drill was that the TC would indicate to the driver a patch of terain that he thought would provide an HD position and the driver would ease up to it. The TC would call call the halt if he wanted to be turret down (in other words, if he just wanted to observe without firing). If it was desired to have the turret exposed, the gunner, looking through his gunsight, would call the halt. Piece of cake.

Michael

[MikeyD]

I've had to struggle with hull-down. Oftentimes I pick a distant spot I want the tank to be hull-down to, expecting it to move 50 yards maybe, but instead it trundles off towards the distant target! The problem almost always is that clump of scattered trees I hadn't noticed along the waypoint line obscuring the LOS endpoint. Another one is acidentally picking the FAR SIDE of a distant hill for hull down! Ooops! I'm just plain sloppy at placing waypoints, I guess.

[PvtTom]

Actually the gunner tells the driver when to stop for a hull down position since he can tell when the gun clears by looking through his sights, at least that's how it was done 10 years ago.

[Ben Galanti]

From the Read Me (emphisis mine):

Hull-down (D) – orders unit to move forward towards the waypoint and, on that path, stop as soon as a position is found which will result in the vehicle being hull-down relative to a possible enemy in the area of the waypoint. If no such position is found, the vehicle will move all the way to the waypoint.

I think it's pretty clear.

Ben

[Fetchez la Vache]

Okay reading what MikeyD says...

So we have to be careful in making sure the end-point on the Hull Down command is within LOS of our intended hull down position? If I stick it behind a wood or hill say, there's a chance that my AFV will move a fair way (unintended) in order to achieve (force) LOS?

Did I make any sense at all there?

[Firefly]

Originally posted by ciks:

No it wasn't in CMBO.

In CMBO Hull Down label poped up when using Target tool, and ONLY if you had enemy armor present to target. You couldn't point to a certain spot on the map, where enemy might appear, to tell if your tank has a hull-down position in relation to that spot.

In CMBB, it is shown using LOS tool and no need to point it at enemy armor.

Actually if your AFV has a bow machine gun in CMBO the 'target' will also report hull down for a soft target too (just happened to me targetting a US inf. squad with a Panther), but you're right you do need a target.

Personally I like the 'hull down', IIRC it was a much requested feature a few months ago, along with the 'move to contact' command; people felt that micromanaging the tank driver was out of place in a wargame and I still can't get it right 100% of the time in CMBO.

[Shosties]

In my Pz IV example there was only bare steppe between the hilltop it was behind and the KV. :confused:

[Doug Beman]

Also:

suppose you have a tank at position X, and it has LOS to position Y, and you give the hulldown order to position Y.

However, as the tank begins to advance, it LOSES the LOS to Y. Will the tank "remember" the original LOS line, or will the tank NOW advance blindly, seeking both LOS and a hulldown spot to Y, possibly driving all the way to Y?

DjB