Has CDV Violated its Agreement with BFC by Selling CMBB in U.S. Retail Stores?

[japinard]

After my great experiences with Battlefront, I'd much rather buy direct than from a retail chain. CompUSA (or CDV) had better pay you guys handsomely. Just not right what they're doing...

[Captain Wacky]

Don't be raggin so hard on CompUSA. Last Christmas my brother went there and found Ghost Recon for $20! Thank you idiot stock boys!

[Stacheldraht]

Don't be raggin so hard on CompUSA.

If you want to buy games, go to gogamer.com or eBay (just make sure the copies there are legit!). CompUSA is usually not a wise choice as far as price, selection, and availability are concerned, in my experience.

[John Osborne]

Hell, CompUSA is selling it over the internet at there web site.

[Terrapin]

They actually carry this at the little Braintree, MA CompUSA near my work. I stopped in out of curiosity.

In the next patch, will Steve incorporate a new scenario involving a regiment of Lawyers attacking the dug-in CompUSA offices? "FO's can call in subpoenas on first turn only. Best played as the Lawyers against the AI..."

Hey, if Civ: Call to Power can have lawyers as a unit, why not CMBB?

[ December 23, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Terrapin ]

[Foobar]

I hope that BFC makes twice as much in the pending lawsuit as they did through direct sales.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

BTW, to restate for the newbies... CDV had no choice but to produce the small manual. They have to put the product into a DVD box or retail won't touch it. ...

Steve[/QB]

Sorry but that's total *bzzz* sold by EDITORS themselves like CDV, that prefers those cheapy crappy DVD boxes. There is still quite a number of BOXED games still selling in Europe - Neverwinter Nights and Civ III for example...

[WWB]

Just saw NWN in the double-sized CD case at best buy yesterday.

Anyhow, one must remember that bigger name titles have alot more bargaining position than small-figure strategy titles in getting shelf space, including the coveted full-sized box space.

WWB

[Zitadelle]

And another spotting of CMBB.... I fought through last minute Christmas shoppers and visited the CompUSA in Fairfax, Virginia. They had about a dozen copies of the CMBB. Also, did a search through the CompUSA web site, and I can also pick up copies in Alexandria and Tyson's Corner as well.

I will say, that I fully understand the Europeans now- that really is ugly packaging! I prefer my plain wrapper with the manual and the CD in the inner cover.

Recon is complete and the verdict is that CDV tried the 'Sneak' command around BFC's 'Covered Arcs' and then issued an 'Assault' command on the VL.

Perhaps, CDV got really mad with Europeans ordering copies through their American friends and everyone bad mouthing them. So, they invaded the US.

[Stalin's Organ]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Guys,

Thanks for the info. We have been working with CDV for a couple of weeks to plug up some holes. Basically, CDV hasn't screwed us over. Just some friendly distributors that say to CDV "only for Europe? Suuuuuuure... no problem!", then they turn around and sell it outside of Europe.

CDV is a big outfit right? so if they're supplying distributors then they haev terms and conditions right?

And those T&C's will presumably include the geographical restrictions agreed with BFC?

So if the distributors break the T&C's with CDV what can BFC actually do? Sue CDV for not enforcing the T&C's? CDV then to on-sue the distributors for not complying?

Can BFC actually sue the distibutors direct at all? There's no direct relationship there after all - the distributors haven't broken any agreement they made with BFC.

I'm not a commercial lawyer or anything, so it all seems a little convoluted to me, but in these parts we have fairly active "parallel importing" where people other than the "authorised agents" import perfectly legitimate goods from distriutors in other parts and sell them - usually for considerably less than the "authorised agent".

In these parts it is seen as an anti-monopoly measure - "authorised agents" being in a position to obtain monopoly profits if it doesn't happen - and of course they do make those profits - the differences in price betwen the parallel imports and the agent's products see to that!! Also hte screams and howls of outraged profiteers....

This is completely illegal and we are working hard to fix it.

Is it a crime or a civil suit?

[Crimguy]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

I agree about the newsgroups, but 1) it's too late, and 2) there's not much to be done about it (for now). I do an occasional search on WinMX, and see just about every game out there available from someone. Qestion is: who in their right mind is going to take a chance on some warez copy, and why not support a good company who's giving a quality product? It's not like we're talking about Microsoft here ;-D

As for niche games: I really got into the hard-core wargames from TacOps 1.0 for the Mac, which I bought in MicroCenter back in 1995. So the storefronts can have a positive effect.

[Monkeybutt]

Since everybody is ragging on CompUSA,my favorite strip from Penny Arcade concerning CompUSA's famous customer service....

[francky]

Originally posted by Zitadelle:

I will say, that I fully understand the Europeans now- that really is ugly packaging! I prefer my plain wrapper with the manual and the CD in the inner cover.

We've got at least 1 friend over the sea !

Appui-Feu

[Frunze]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Nah, retail has been trying to get its mits on CM for years. We haven't done any such deal because it probably would be the death of us. Retail is a very dangerous place for someone like us to be. And if we wanted full coverage in North America we could sign an addendum to our contract with CDV in a day and make it so. But they know we would never do that so they have never asked for such a deal.

Oh. I thought you had some exceptionally good deal with CDV or something. Musta misunderstood something in an interview. Nevermind.

Yeah, I know normally the maker of the game, especially a small company, would get only a fraction of the retail price. And probably have to allow stores to return unsold copies for cash, and all kinds of crap.

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by Monkeybutt:

Since everybody is ragging on CompUSA,my favorite strip from Penny Arcade concerning CompUSA's famous customer service....

Well as CompUSA employee (Montclair CA, store, come visit me sometime, ask for Joe) I take exception to "bad service" & "idiot employees" remarks.

CompUSA makes it's market by offering a better level of service & knowledge than it's 2 main competitors, Best Buy & Circuit City and customer feedback bears this out - Our prices are generally a bit higher but our customer base is very loyal & does not mind the very slight price differences.

We let Best Buy & Circuit City have the super cheap customers (Who incidently demand much more of your attention, like they deserve it) who will scream bloody murder over a $2 price difference and will pick your brain for half an hour and then go buy the stuff online.

Retail is a crappy job and having to deal with hordes of smart ass nerds doesn't make it any easier.

In any case, I can buy CM2 at my store (Not in stock yet though) for $35, which is how much CompUSA pays for it so to you full price paying fools.

You want to see bad service try Fry's or best Buy (Circuit City is not too bad for the A/V stuff)

Gyrene

[kford]

Originally posted by Gyrene:

In any case, I can buy CM2 at my store (Not in stock yet though) for $35, which is how much CompUSA pays for it so to you full price paying fools.

Sooo, even though you know that the CompUSA copies are illegal and rob money from BTS, you are bragging about it? Just joking I hope.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by kford:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gyrene:

In any case, I can buy CM2 at my store (Not in stock yet though) for $35, which is how much CompUSA pays for it so to you full price paying fools.

Sooo, even though you know that the CompUSA copies are illegal and rob money from BTS, you are bragging about it? Just joking I hope.

Thanks,

Kevin</font>

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organ:

So if the distributors break the T&C's with CDV what can BFC actually do? Sue CDV for not enforcing the T&C's? CDV then to on-sue the distributors for not complying?

Can BFC actually sue the distibutors direct at all? There's no direct relationship there after all - the distributors haven't broken any agreement they made with BFC.

Is it a crime or a civil suit?

Well, it is more likely a civil violation (I am a bit fuzzy on the copyright laws, as that is a specialty I do not have). However, as a commercial lawyer, here is the way it would break down:

BFC would sue CDV for breach of contract, tortious interference with business relations, etc., for distributing CDV copies of the game in the U.S.

CDV would file a claim against a third party defendant, 'distributor X' (whoever has sold the games to CompUSA, etc.) and bring them in as defendants in the suit.

BFC would obtain judgment against CDV. CDV would pay BFC, then would in turn obtain a judgment against the third-party distributor.

You are right that BFC could not sue the third party distributor for breach of the contractual geographic limitations as there is no privity of contract (legal term for a contractual arrangement between two or more parties) between BFC and the third party distributor.

And the lawyers would make a pile of money.

Steve

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

And the lawyers would make a pile of money.

Steve

I believe the legal term is: 'A Feast for Lawyers'.

[aka_tom_w]

"And the lawyers would make a pile of money. "

Sad but true

and knowing that, CDV and the third party may have figured... "oh what the hell" it will cost BFC (who are "just a few guys with big ideas") too much in legal fees to come after us so lets make hay while the sun shines and distribute that HOT new game (especially right before Christmas how convienient) to all the retail stores in the U.S. And there you go....

A very regretable situation.

-tom w

[ December 24, 2002, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Panzer_Meyer]

I use to work for CompUSA before joining the Air Force. I am glad I am out of there, I hated working for Compusa.

Like Gyrene said, they promote customer service, but damn, I've met some of the dumbest people on earth. I couldn't deal with 99% of the time. I was close to punching some customers, I walked away on some and even told some to never come back (in a more rude kind of way). I guess retail ins't for me.

I wonder how all this is going to end. If CompUSA is going to be sued by BFC? Or if this will be settled in a different sort of way.

You are right about the prices though, CompUSa prices are usually a bit higher than enywhere alse.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

and knowing that CDV and the third party figured "oh what the hell" it will cost BFC (who are "just a few guys with big ideas") too much in legal fees to come after us so lets make hay while the sun shines and distribute that HOT new game (especially right before Christmas how convienient) to all the retail stores in the U.S. And there you go....

A very regretable situation.

Yeah, but do you think they know who they are dealing with? Unleash The Weasel!

[ December 24, 2002, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ]

[AUSSIEJEFF]

Originally posted by Zitadelle:

Perhaps, CDV got really mad with Europeans ordering copies through their American friends and everyone bad mouthing them. So, they invaded the US.

Does George W. know about this? The Pentagon??

Are these people related in some way to El Queda???

AJ

[Monkeybutt]

Originally posted by Gyrene:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Monkeybutt:

Since everybody is ragging on CompUSA,my favorite strip from Penny Arcade concerning CompUSA's famous customer service....

Well as CompUSA employee (Montclair CA, store, come visit me sometime, ask for Joe) I take exception to "bad service" & "idiot employees" remarks.

CompUSA makes it's market by offering a better level of service & knowledge than it's 2 main competitors, Best Buy & Circuit City and customer feedback bears this out - Our prices are generally a bit higher but our customer base is very loyal & does not mind the very slight price differences.

We let Best Buy & Circuit City have the super cheap customers (Who incidently demand much more of your attention, like they deserve it) who will scream bloody murder over a $2 price difference and will pick your brain for half an hour and then go buy the stuff online.

Retail is a crappy job and having to deal with hordes of smart ass nerds doesn't make it any easier.

In any case, I can buy CM2 at my store (Not in stock yet though) for $35, which is how much CompUSA pays for it so to you full price paying fools.

You want to see bad service try Fry's or best Buy (Circuit City is not too bad for the A/V stuff)

Gyrene</font>

[Battlefront.com]

MrSpkr,

You are right that BFC could not sue the third party distributor for breach of the contractual geographic limitations as there is no privity of contract (legal term for a contractual arrangement between two or more parties) between BFC and the third party distributor.

Correct. Technically our beef is with the distributor/s that are breaking their legal obligations to CDV. Legally our beef is with CDV and only CDV. Obviously since we have a good working relationship with them, and this is as much a problem for them as it is us, we are working together to resolve the problem. No lawyers need be involved unless, for some reason, CDV does not fulfill its obligations to fix the problem. Obviously NOBODY wants it to come to this, not us and certainly not CDV. Our lawyers are a lot cheaper than theirs AND they know they will lose

Steve