Omi Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 It seems like no matter what happens, the game will always add at least 5 extra turn to the battle. I thought the battle was only extended when a flag changed hand in the last turns. During my last game, I owned the flag for the entire game and when we reached the turn limit(20), my opponent wasn't even close enough to contest it. Yet, 5 extra turns were added. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Heresay plus my experience is that "variable length" means "add five". Anyone got any contrary experience? I guess this is a bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Well, I have experience between 3 and 7 extra turns. It depends on what you mean by 'work properly'. If you mean ending or not by determining whether flags are changing hands/contested, no. If you mean adding some uncertainty to the end turn, yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 10 extra turns for my last game. I 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Well, that's good news, even if we don't know what TRL was just about to say 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Originally posted by Thin Red Line: 10 extra turns for my last game. ISnipers! Everybody down! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Poor Johnny . He was just a kid... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 I was about to say... well, end can happen any time . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I've looked into the variable ending rather deeply. Here's what happens: At the end of the designer specified number of turns a random number between 0 and 10 inclusive is chosen. This number is how many turns the game will go beyond the designer specified number. IOW, the final decision on game length is decided at the end of the designer specified length. This means there is an equal chance of the game going any SPECIFIC number of extra turns. You should see as many games end with zero extra turns as you see end with 10 extra turns. What it amounts to is a +/- 5 situation. If the designer chooses '40 turns variable', he's really choosing 45 turns +/- 5. Chances of the game ending on or BEFORE a given turn: Designer specified - 9% +1 Turn - 18% +2 Turns - 27% +3 Turns - 36% +4 Turns - 45% etc...... Odds are you will get a few extra turns. Notes: Variable ending games have nothing to do with flags changing hands near the end of the game. Games less than 40 turns in length will have a maximum number of extra turns equal to 25% of designer specified length. A 28 turn game can have, at most, 7 extra turns. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 the golden rule is: when attacking the game will end as soon as the minimum number is reached. when defending the turns will go to at least an extra 50%. this rule is immutable & unbending. it happens in 15 turn - 70 turn games. probably higher but that's the longest i've played. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I always thought that it meant that a total of 1/4 of the length of the game could be added ( ie. a 20+ turn game lasting until the 25th turn was finished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 You're right, Rob, up to a maximum of 10 extra turns. A 70 turn game, for example, can't go past the 80th turn. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four Stringer Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 My butt just got saved in a CMBB Operation when the 20+ turn battle #1 ended right at turn 20. Whew! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yep, you had less than a 10% chance of that happening. The variable ending works quite well IMO. It puts just enough uncertainty into the scenario. I'm actually glad the whole variable ending thing is NOT tied to late game flag status changes. EDIT: Actually, you may have had about a 17% chance of getting zero extra turns. With only 20 turns in the scenario, the "die roll" may only involve 0-5. It would make sense if it worked this way. Treeburst155 out. [ March 14, 2004, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Treeburst, this is the kind of stuff we need - a Scenario Designer's Manual. With all the math type Victory Locations, Extra Turns, Knockout Points etc. explained in detail. I would pay 20 dollars for it. Why doesn't Battlefront commission you and redwolf to put it together, get some actual readable screenshots together, and put out a limited print run. Would certainly improve the current crop of scenarios. I haven't even thought about putting out any CMAK scenarios because the more I read your stuff, the more I realize I (and many likely) really aren't equipped to handle the mechanics of scenario design in a satisfying way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Treeburst, this is the kind of stuff we need - a Scenario Designer's Manual. With all the math type Victory Locations, Extra Turns, Knockout Points etc. explained in detail. I would pay 20 dollars for it. Why doesn't Battlefront commission you and redwolf to put it together, get some actual readable screenshots together, and put out a limited print run. Because redwolf is on the nose at BFC at the moment! (I'd buy it too, after I buy JC's strategy guide - when is that coming out?). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Michael, I think the only thing designer's really need is a DETAILED explanation of the scoring system, which covers everything you mention above, except the Variable Ending. The Variable Ending is fairly easy to comprehend. It was just time consuming to do the testing to find out how it worked. All that really needs to be done is to update Redwolf's work to CMAK, and perhaps do a thorough study of Exit scenario scoring. I'm not sure how far Redwolf dug into Exit scenarios. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Originally posted by Treeburst155: Snipped: Notes: Variable ending games have nothing to do with flags changing hands near the end of the game. Is the increase in turns due to flags changing hands a feature separate from variable endings, and if so, does it apply to both variable and non-variable ending games? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 BFC has said in the past that variable end does kick in when a flag is contested within 10(?) turns of the end. I may have the precise number wrong but it was a fairly significant number of turns, high enough that the vast majority of games played would fall under this rule. That would make adding extra turns a functionally automatic action, though an oddball game might theoretically meet the 'no extra turns needed' criteria. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheer Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi all, I just played a 120 turn + monster, where the extra turns added up to three. Quite lousy for such a monster. To the dismay of my formidable opponent ( Hi Harold ),the attritionist always wins ... hehe ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Mikey D, I tested variable endings in CMBB. In that game, you will get variability no matter what happens to the flags at any point in the game. CMAK may be a different story. I'm not curious enough to test it. When I see a high percentage of variable ending games ending with zero extra turns, I'll get more curious. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yeh, BFC may have said that there's a trigger that kicks-in variable endings (for both CMBB and CMAK) but I can count on the fingers of one hand when I've wound up with a variable game ending on the final turn without going into overtime. And I seem to be unluckier than most, mine almost always extend about NINE extra turns! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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