Question for us all

[slysniper]

While we wait for the next Generation of games from this company, which appears will still be some time. I have a question that we all can answer. Why is the present combat mission games the best war games on the market at this time? You only need to submit a response as long as you agree.

I personally feel that the reason for me that these games are my favorite is because of how well the games have modeled the real life concept of firepower and how it works. By no way does this mean that the games have it perfect or that the weapons are all represented correctly. But where the game has truly shined is how the weapons interact with each other and how units are influenced by them. I do not know of any other games that come close as to portraying the effects on troops and armor under fire in a realistic way.

I also appreciate the fact that the game was designed to allow for the user to also be able to design (without being a computer wiz). Most computer games lock you out of doing very much of that. I figure mostly because of desiring future sales of modules and protecting their game system. But the truth is you can never gain a long term customer unless the product can entertain for a long time. These games will continue to entertain until the average user stops investing design time. This is the only reason I am excited for the new games that are coming about from BFC. I hope they will give me plenty of reuse as the present games presently do, even though I will need to buy the modules.

[junk2drive]

WEGO

Easy to use editor

Easy to mod visually

Squad/Unit level

Community / supported by BFC

I admit that it took me a few tries at the CMBO demo before I understood the concept.

I keep trying to find something else when I get burnout but just can't get into turn based / Real Time / Nato counter / Platoon or higher scale.

[Sergei]

Because they're good games.

[GJK]

The CM series is about the only pure computer based wargame that I actively play - even after all this time.

I think that the reason that I enjoy it is because it's easy to play (once you learn it), yet the detail is high and it's fun to play. Note however that I very rarely play against the AI - but do enjoy pbem games and I never play QB's, always pre-made scenarios.

[MarkEzra]

I have played CM since the CMBO demo days. It stays on my hard drive for all the reasons Junk 2drive has listed. Battlefront put great effort into making weapons, vehicles, and men function has the did during WW2. I have really appreciated that above all else.

[ng cavscout]

The CM series of games, to me, are the best engine available for simulating WW2 tactical engagements. The WEGO system really does an excellent job of eliminating alot of the "Gaminess" inherent in a turn based game. The 3-D visuals make grasping the tactical picture much easier than top down games such as Steel Panthers.

[wunwinglow]

I've only been playing CMAK for a year or so, but it is the only game one my HD at the moment; all the rest have long gone, mostly via eBay. I have Stronghold 2 on the shelf awaiting a more powerful PC, but CMAK is just so engaging. Sometimes I think the graphic limitations of the scenery make it 'look' odd, but what actually happens during the game just strike, well, true. There are lots of improvements thet could be made, of course, (how about limiting the actual views available to those of your troops, plus a 'map'for plotting reported positions?) and I am sure the advances in PC power and programming will make the next version 'look' much more realistic.

But it is the game's inherent 'honesty' that keeps me coming back for more.

And the editor, so I can do my own thing.

Tim P (wunwinglow)

[Wildass69]

Everything that has been said is true and I would echo. I am a lover of history especially history of warfare. You can play most time periods these days from the dawn of history right into the future. To me the ultimate period of warfare (so far) was the WWII frame. This was THE crisis of the human race. I'm not sure why that is so interesting to me but it is; perhaps because so much was at stake.

The CM games aren't just games. They are experiences. They offer at least some sense of what the battles of that great struggle were like. Someone called them honest. They are. They are better than playing miniatures, not just because all of the calculations and consistancy are provided for you, not just because they provide a continuity that makes battle flow believable but because they allow you to express your innovation by putting you right into the battle.

I'd like to share an example. It's probably no great revelation to most of you but it was one of those little things that make you feel really good because you figured it out for yourself:

In a CMBB battle I was faced with a situation where a Russian 85mm AA/AT was place in such a position that I could not advance without facing it and I could not directly attack it without dangerous exposure to my units, in this case Tiger Is. In fact I'd already lost two Tigers to this very gun. It was situated in front of a brick factory located in the middle of the village and the structures between my units and the gun were what was making it impossible to "overwhelm" it.

It was a problem.

Suddenly it dawned on me that the 88mm guns on my panzers were more than capable of leveling the factory. Since the Russian gun sat at the base of the factory wall all I need to do was knock the wall down on the gun - and I could certainly target the wall! It only took a few rounds.

[Wodin]

WEGO, Atmosphere and you need to think to win.

[Askovdk]

Among other qualities I really like the level of management. The NOT 1-1 representation of soldiers but the abstract squads removes a lot of micro management. This gives a way of playing as good as possible without spending hours moving individuals to the best possible positions.

(Others might disagree, - please don't hijack this thread.)

[MikeyD]

Most other games are soooo heavily scripted. You run down a hall, a monster (or German, or viking) jumps out, you die; you're back running down the same hall again, the same monster (or German, or viking) jumps out, you kill him this time; you run down another hall... This made for entertaining (though mindless) gameplay in 1993 but by the twentieth title you're burned-out on the genre.

CM gives you unscripted gameplay, terrain that's intimately connected with the course of the action, and as close to real-world (not gameplay-enhanced) ballistics as I've seen. CM players often say they start seeing the real world through the lens of the game - good hull-down position here, decent terrain masking there, etc. Something that doesn't usually happen with DOOM players

[Mike Summers]

All of the previously stated things hold true, plus the replayability. I've gone back and replayed countless scenarios as I've gotten better (or more experienced), providing bonus' to the AI/oppenent. Just because I've played a map once, doesn't rule out playing it a second or third time. I think this is one of the bigger reasons both CMBB and CMAK are the only two games on my computer.

Mike

[Aco4bn187inf]

I was describing CM the other day as 'chess with tanks'. To play chess you have to get pieces with widely varying capabilities to work together, and that's what makes it more interesting than, say, checkers. CM has an extremely dynamic interaction of the 'pieces' on the board.

Visually, somehow, the game conveys a sense of motion, potential, and flexibility in the units depicted. Maybe it's the radical fluidity of the player's POV in time and space, maybe its the abstraction and crispness of the graphic shapes.

Compare the Close Combat games: they have a sense of sluggishness in the moving units and the player usually feels his orders are being executed vaguely and indecisively.

In CM, even when your infantry is pinned and your tanks are bogging in vinyards, you never really feel trapped as a player. The energy of the game never gets 'foggy' even if the tactical situation does.

Because the prospect of new maps and scenarios is unlimited, the player has an awareness of being on an infinite field of possibility, even when he's just taking an insignificant hill in a tiny quickbattle.

It's like a digital Valhalla.

[MikeyD]

If I ever get around to upgrading my system (promises promises) I'm more than a little tempted to snap-up the Grognards Napoleonics game when it comes out too. Everything about it sounds like high-end CM-style play. Even if it doesn't include tanks!

[ May 05, 2006, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[junk2drive]

But it does include horses...

[HeinzBaby]

Apart from everything else that has been said about the CM series,

Its the wonderful virtual tabletop wargaming aspect I enjoy.

Gameplay (engine) and Eyecandy are both equal for me.

Those with the talent construct Ops, senarios from the 'sandpit' editor,

others mod for all to share. When you open a mission and scroll down through, its an amazing little world; briefings, OOB's, battlefield.

You don't have to spend hours packing up -(thou I usually spend whole evenings setting up).

I enjoy the pearls of wisdom from all the Grogs and satire from the funny buggers.

It is a good Forum.

OT: I already have the two ACW MMG sims and I'll be getting LG when it hits the shelves.

[523rd MP]

I am rather new to this type of wargaming and am experiencing problems getting rolling. I downloaded Afrika Korps on my lat top (Dell XPS). I start the tutorial, get to the 4th screen, then the screen goes white and I get rebooted back to windows. Anyone got any suggestions?

[flamingknives]

Try the tech support forum?

[Son of Hamchuck]

Didn't care much for it at first, played the "Fruhlingswind" demo as the Germans, and got seriously waxed. But a little reading,paying more attention to details, helped me to appreciate this most excellent of sims. It's "Panzer Blitz" ( old board game ) for the puter. Even though the graphics aren't cutting edge by any stretch, I still feel immersed. It has a way of keeping me so fully engauged, that time (lot's of time ) passes without me being aware of it. My favorite feature is the editor, and the fact that so many have used it to design some really outstanding scenarios.

[junk2drive]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

CM players often say they start seeing the real world through the lens of the game - good hull-down position here, decent terrain masking there, etc. Something that doesn't usually happen with DOOM players

And license plates with PZV or AFV or...

Watching a CG cartoon with the grandsons about some Irish pigs on a farm. I'm thinking "who's sky does that look like, that fence wall would look great in Sealion, that house has nifty rock and mortar textures..."

[Wildass69]

I guess the summary for me would be when you forget it's just a game and things get out of hand - the kind of things a real commander would be livid over (I'm not confessing to loosing my temper at a computer game!) - that's when you realize this is one of the best games out there!

[Wildass69]

MikeyD

What Napoleonics Games are you talking about (Not Cossacks II, I hope)?

Derrell

[Ales Dvorak]

Originally posted by Wildass69:

MikeyD

What Napoleonics Games are you talking about (Not Cossacks II, I hope)?

Derrell

Maybe this one?

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000171

[Wildass69]

I apologize for being myopic with the BF main forum page.

This is definitley on my list of games which by definition is very short. Right now it has two entrie, CMC and now this!

Looks fabulous!!!

Thanks, AD

[Tagwyn]

Martin: Now do you see what I mean? ON with the show (CMSF and CMC) put the rest of that stuff in a cereal box!! PLEASE. Tag