theike Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Something ive been wondering about for a long time, but why dont more people make maps and post them (for others to use)? Ofcourse there are alot of maps made for scenarios, and they get posted, but its kind of a not done thing to do your own thing on them, with your own ideas. Still; we have the map editor on witch we could (and maybe even should) make the whole of the Eastern front on, every landscape type, every city, every battleground, real ore fictional, and having those around plenty is what gets a battle started in the first place. Maps are a very important part of this game u know. I would go as far as saying they are way more important then the next look for a tank...(but i say that with alot of friendlyness in my voice ofcourse ) I know some folks make their own maps to use for themselves...why not post them to us? There are so many ways to make good maps, and every maker has kind of like a own signature to making them, making it so that the playing on it not just looks and feels different, but also IS different... I cant encourage everybody enough to make maps. (and post them) Also people in Russia ore Poland ore Italie ore even Tunesia, might have way better maps of their region, and better insite to their enviroments to go on, then others may have. So please do your thing. Ive been missing it for so long now [ September 03, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: theike ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 I find making a decent map the most work-intensive part of the process, so once I have done it, I prefer to do the scenario as a whole. Maybe others feel the same way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Well, I just uploaded a huuuuge map to the Scenario Depot. Called Marjamäki. Go and review it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 But I live in the Pacific, I guess there's no need for my map making. Los [ September 03, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Los ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: I find making a decent map the most work-intensive part of the process, so once I have done it, I prefer to do the scenario as a whole. Maybe others feel the same way? Bingo. After I have spent 5-20 hours making a map, I cannot bear but to put units on it. Having done alot of searching for maps on the net and in archival sources, I will tell you that finding good topo maps at useful scales is very difficult to impossible depending on the locale. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 I agree with Wyatt and Andreas, I put all the work into a map, then someone says it looks auto-generated, or not enough cover. What annoys me the worse about this, is I based the maps on 1:25000 and photos of the area. Complain to mother nature and not to me. For this reason, I quit making maps, and just work on scenarios. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Plus, when you generate the map, you also have to generate start zones - for a good battle, you therefore need to know the units (at least I do). Again, when I generate maps, I tend to have a specific idea in mind which affects the terrain. There's nothing stopping you importing scenario terrain into a QB and leaving the troops off though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Hi, Yup, I agree with Andreas and others, the map is the most important part of the equation. It all counts, but get the map to look like the real thing, photos from the Eastern Front in this case, and it is a case of the Eagle has Landed. BTW. Huge credit deserves to go to the team at BFC. The reason, in this case, is that I have found that when I build a CMBB map from a topographical map of the east, the result looks “exactly” like the many hundreds, in fact thousands, of photos I have from the Eastern Front. I have always been one of those weirdos who when looking at photos from the east is more interested in the landscape than the tanks. All the best, Kip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 The map sets the mood, hard to make a map and then not use it. For a supply of maps I suggest 'field stripping" the available scenarios for their maps. Besure to credit the original designer if it comes back as a scenario. Re-using maps for more than one scenario? I would have thought this wouldn't work. But doing the PanzerBlitz conversions showed me that reorienting the map and changing the seasons and set up areas allows a map to be used more than once 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Just a note, the BCR folks have done tons of maps. Since I prefer playing on player designed maps, but enjoy picking my own forces, the BCR maps have been a godsend. Some of them are a little odd or overly specialized, but by and large, they make for fun battles. And I could play the SP-Derzhinsky map and Berli's Kunersdorf map over and over again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 coz i can't find how to put a flag down. :mad: :mad: :mad: <hr> got it in another thread. finally i can go to bed. cheers Snarker. [ September 03, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Other Means ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 For what its worth, I've made about 20. I just dont have a naming scheme thought up yet. Frank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunstler Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I've been fiddling around with the map maker and have several completed ones, but they're all fictional. Hadn't actually thought much about uploading them, but if people are looking for maps, I suppose I might as well put the bunch that I've done up. I just have to fiddle with the set up areas. That and the flags. They are a major influence on what happens with the AI. Actually I kind of like just making the maps and not worrying about the troop set ups. I just took a look at Thieke's link, and he's the only chap posting maps there! cheers, kunstler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 There are quite a few maps packs around that at first sight look good, but if you stop for a moment and look at the layout you soon start wondering exactly what the map designer had in mind with the road layout .... roads usually go somewhere ! Often the maps have VL's on them that make no sense at all, Ive seen 2 or 3 flags all packed into a distance of 50 mtrs or placed at location where you start wondering what tactical value that location would have and 'why' would you want to capture it. Some map designers have some good ideas and then spoil them by trying to implement all those ideas onto a single map. I've played scenarios by most of the designers who have responded to this thread and always found their maps to have one big advantage over most of the map packs ..... realism ! (Runes comments suprised me ... I always thought his maps looked great ! ) I have played on maps created by Kip and Andreas that have been based on real world maps and have had a copy of the real map at hand whilst playing ... they were so true to life that I could navigate over the CM map by using the real world one ............. thats realism ! (I should really mention Mapping Mission a this point !) When they have created the maps they have thought about what they are trying to achieve in the scenario, combine that with a good, balanced force selection and you have the reason why scenarios by those designers are always worth the download. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theike Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Maps dont have to all be from real life... not to me anyways, not if u just want a good game against someone, ore the ai. They should just FEEL real. (and have a meaning to them, ore say; a reason for a visit) ...please post them Franko and Kunster. And btw, Kunster: setups and flags; yes u could do them, but its no must. I used to do the setup zones and flags to the maps ive made. But i now find doing maps and letting the people take their own choices on it, is maybe better. (atleast for now i think that...Its probably because i make some of my maps into scenarios myself now) (i might still do a cutoutpack with setups some day, maybe even with prebought units for a defender, and indications aswell for attacking....but not as real scenarios, more like a sketch thing...just to save people some time, and ore maybe get them some own ideas ore just more maps ..im thinking about that now.....) I think people need maps to play 2 person games on, by pbem ore whatever, and having some good maps around to choose from makes playing eachother so much more fun. I guess, its more fun to me when i finaly finish a map, to go look whats beyond its edges, then putting units on it. Maybe thats a difference to some of the folks here. Still, the scenario people could post the plain maps, without their battle on it aswell...ore maybe note its ok to use the map whatever for? I think noone uses others maps publicly due to not knowing if they may so. Its kind of like a cm game admosphere to make scenarios, not maps. Looking at other games where people make more maps then scenarios, but i guess thats because CM makes it so easy to do so. Witch is darn near fantastic about this game!!! we should just create a more map friendly enviroment maybe so they get used more, and posted more, not looking down on them. If there where more people who made maps, there would maybe also be more scenario makers to use them for ideas. and so on and so on... [ September 04, 2003, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: theike ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Originally posted by Becket: Just a note, the BCR folks have done tons of maps. Since I prefer playing on player designed maps, but enjoy picking my own forces, the BCR maps have been a godsend. Some of them are a little odd or overly specialized, but by and large, they make for fun battles. And I could play the SP-Derzhinsky map and Berli's Kunersdorf map over and over again. If you look at those maps, you will find that theike did quite many of them. And the BCR folks would need much more maps.... @Franko: I'd like to include those maps in a BCR map pack. Credit will be given. If you need help with the naming scheme, I'll do that for you. The maps remain your property, we just get the permission to publish them. @All I'd like to include any map of you. Please contact me if you like @Theike For my holiday next week, I made a note to contact you re:maps. It would be great if you could do something like the Kiev map pack for BCR '42. Balancing is not a problem for BCR maps, the AI gets a bonus up to 160% anyway. Gruß Joachim [ September 04, 2003, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I had been meaning to release the maps of all my scenarios seperatly. However, I forgot. I do have one map called holy ground at the depot. I will try to post some of the others by this weekend. I wish we would get more map reviews, BTW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Originally posted by theike: Maps dont have to all be from real life... not to me anyways, not if u just want a good game against someone, ore the ai. They should just FEEL real. (and have a meaning to them, ore say; a reason for a visit) I agree with you that maps dont have to be actual representations of real world locations, and agree that if they are to "FEEL real" then the routes for roads/rivers and rail tracks should have some meaning. I find lots of maps have roads that dont make sense ... strips of road going no where, rivers that have huge bends in them for no reason (look on most maps and you'll see a reason for a bend in a river - contours etc). I think that whilst a map maker is designing his map, he usually has some mental image as to how it will be used and the type of fighting that would suit it ......... the scenario designers probably start with and idea of the type of engagement they want to create and build the forces and map to suit. Personally I'm glad we have both (map and scenario designers) in the CM community 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: Plus, when you generate the map, you also have to generate start zones - for a good battle, you therefore need to know the units (at least I do). You actually don't have to generate start zones. If map is used for QBs, leave all zones neutral and remove all flags. QB generator will automatically assign zones and flags to map that has none. It was surprise to me until I did read about that in ROQC (R. Olesen's Quick Campaign). Cheers, M.S. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSulo Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: @All I'd like to include any map of you. Please contact me if you like I think Biltong tried that, asking scenario designers if he could use thier maps. He was turned down by almost every one of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Can't remember if he asked me, but if some credit is given, why not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusOHGamer Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Theike has done some really nice maps. My favorites are the towns by the water/fjord. Seems very real to me when the AI is handing me my a$$ on a platter! Also, if anyone has maps they want to release to the public, feel free to upload them to the CM Maps Database at CM Maps DB. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I got some TNT-Slathered maps for ya pus munch!! :mad: I'll be posting two good ones within a couple of days! :mad: Open them up and eat the TNT you slithering pile of ameoba guts!! :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I guess I'm one of the few who likes making maps more than scenarios. I did a "Wilderness Pack" that I think is on Boots&Tracks. I did another custom job for someone who didn't like it - that turned out to be my favorite one. And I rarely care about the "fighting" when I do a map - I just want it to feel like real terrain, as much as possible. That means that most of my maps aren't too much fun to fight on. Actually, I like making maps a lot more than I like playing the game. -dale [ September 04, 2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: dalem ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theike Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 hi Dalem. No fun to fight on, u say? Maybe so, but someone who wants to play a map, can always cutout a piece that WILL be playable. Most 'reel' maps, ore nice looking maps are not that good to play on in a whole, jet they will have parts on them that can be surprisingly adventurous to engage. (I just make very large maps now, and just advise people to do cutouts to their own liking. Some maps can make for 3 or 4 games like that.) If u make maps your way, i bet u there will be someone out there who things; 'Wow, now this i like.' But ofcourse not everyone, because as many people will look at it, there will be that many ways of wanting to battle. No map can please them all. Maybe u could find someone to make scenarios on some of them, the proving grounds has some friendly people who like to fiddle around, Its always good to share... and even better to keep doing what u like the most... im a fool for one-liners, i know [ September 04, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: theike ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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