Shooting from the hip

[Horncastle]

Is it possible to fire a MMG from the hip, for instance the MG42 while standing and unleash a burst of 50 rounds?

I never thought you could do this with MMG's, an LMG like a Bren maybe.

I played that new "realistic" Flashpoint demo and you could run about and fire off 50 round bursts on an M60.

Anyone know of any times this has been done in real life like WWII??

[nedlam]

The only person I've ever known to do this sort of thing is John Rambo. I think he was special forces in Vietnam, not World War II.

[Barticus]

Well, I've seen plenty of film footage of both the M60 and Browning .30 MG being fired from the hip, but I can only imagine the accuracy is basically non-existant. In OP Flashpoint you will notice that hitting anything at a range beyond point blank is next to impossible with either of the MG's in the demo (while standing). I always go prone before using 'the pig'.

Can't wait for the full version!

Bart

[Olle Petersson]

I can't see any problem doing it.

The weight is taken by shoulder strap.

A 50 round belt is fairly short and won't cause much trouble.

The right hand holds the pistol grip while the left hand holds the bipod, either one leg to the side or both legs folded.

If the range is less than 20m you might actually hit a standing person...

Cheers

Olle

[Panzer Leader]

I just saw on TV last night (some show about Sen.Kerry) film fottage from Vietnam. There was a soldier with an M60 in a total "Rambo" pose, firing across a road and into the jungle. It was obvious that they were in a real firefight.

The MMGs, though, would be a little harder to handle. It was still neat fottage, though. I bet the guys nickname was "Pig".

[Mlapanzer]

M-60 firing from the hip no problem. Eventhough accuracy does suffer. I just read an account of a Screaming Eagle using a 50cal from the hip at Bastone during an assault on some dug in Germans. Extreme stress can make one do extreme things. Like the lady who lifts a car off the pinned child.

[Wesreidau]

MG 34 and 42 were fired from the hip, in "In Deadly Combat" the author (German) mentions running and firring with the MG himself and others in his platoon doing the same. Wouldn't say it was very frequent, accurate or effective (unless very close range), but it did happen.

PeterNZ

[mensch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nedlam:

The only person I've ever known to do this sort of thing is John Rambo. I think he was special forces in Vietnam, not World War II.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually there is a cheat mode.. you click on the mg unit and hit return, this brings up the stats of this unit. close it. do this five times and then order the unit to go in hide. then do the get info and close it again five times. after this your MG unit is changed to "RAMBI" (trademark laws forbid BTS to use RAMBO)..

This unit can now run and shoot on the run, jump quite long distances, the nifty featrue is after the unit is reduced to 1 man it has a bow and arrow with explosive heads which it can shoot at tanks and blow them up. if you type in "Nam was hell" in tcp/ip mode it may go in movie mode which when the enemy shoots at them bullets fall short kicking up a lot of dirt and making for real cool movie sceens but all of this at the cost of loosing heavy vocabulary. off and on it yells "adrian!" but that I still can not figure out. real cool bug but many don't use it cus its to "gamey"

[RenoFlame 36]

Fired lots of M60's from a bipod and M151's. I couldn't hit much of anything firing more than a 3 to 5 round burst. That doesn't mean you can't "walk" the rounds up to the target. I'm just saying that if you want to have any kind of accuracy, you need stability for the gun.

That's why you see those terrific "firing platforms" for the MG34 and 42.

[Cos]

Can't think of all the details at the moment, but wasn't there a USMC that won the Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal (sp?) for repeling a Japanese charge on his position by using a 30(50?) cal from the hip because everyone else in his squad was down.

[rleete]

Mensch, that is an evil trick. I love it. You just know there's gonna be a post on making that work! (BTS fix or do somfink)

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited 'cause I screwed up]

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited by: R_Leet ]

[Wesreidau]

*sniff*

every time i try to be a grog mensch turns up and ruins things!!!!

It's NOT fair!!!

*cry* *sniff*

PeterNZ

[mPisi]

There are links to a ton of cool machinegun videos at http://gulfcoastarmory.com/mgvids.html

Most relevant to this discussion may be:

A young lady shooting an M60 from the shoulder:

A guy shooting the M60 from the shoulder and then the hip: Looks pretty solid to me.

And, for what 1919 fire should look like when repelling an assault:

EDIT: these links may not be working... Email me if you are interested in the mpgs.

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited by: mPisi ]

[MikeyD]

Sounds to me like firing from the hip is roughly equivalent to using a firehose. You point the nossle in the general direction and you know your aim is good if the target area gets wet. from the hip could be used for fire superession, I suppose, where the object is not so much to actually hit something as much as to dissuade the opponent from poking his head up.

[Kingfish]

Dammit! If Jesse Ventura can fire a mini-gun from the hip so should my guys!!!

BTS Fix or...oh nevermind.

[MrSpkr]

Hey mPisi, your video links are down.

MrSpkr

[Murph]

I read that firing and M60 from the hip just isn't done. Sure, it can happen, and it has happened, but accuracy suffers miserably.

Regarding Rambo, I read that in the movie he was firing blanks, which have much less recoil than real bullets. The author went on to say something like "had he been firing real bullets, he would have hit the ground, the sky, the cameraman, everything around him, but not his target"

Murph

Murph

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph:

I read that firing and M60 from the hip just isn't done. Sure, it can happen, and it has happened, but accuracy suffers miserably.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

M60s are not fired from the hip... the actual technique is called 'ball buster'. The Butt of the stock rests against your inner thigh, and you lean into it (BTW, you have to be stationary... no running and shooting). You can be fairly accurate so long as you keep your bursts to about 3-5 rounds. Firing from the actual hip is a waste of ammo. From the shoulder, if you are stong enough, it is also fairly accurate.

[Banshee]

Actually if you watch History Channel enough you will see guys using the 30 cal with a shoulder strap and a ammo bag (the belt feeds from the bag) on their hip. I can remember 3 different video scenes in my head (most dramatic of which was in Cologne a guy crossing the street laying down suppressing fire on the run.. you could see the inaccuracy from the tracers, but it would prolly make you duck).

So it was done.

[Guest Babra]

I have seen the FN MAG fired from the hip using the strap & bag arrangement previously described, as well as a cushion wrapped around the bipod to make a hand-grip. I don't know how its weight would compare with an M60 or MG34/42.

[Gyrene]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Can't think of all the details at the moment, but wasn't there a USMC that won the Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal (sp?) for repeling a Japanese charge on his position by using a 30(50?) cal from the hip because everyone else in his squad was down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Manilla" John Basilone did that, he fired his .30 cal mostly from the hip running back and forth between his platoon's positions. First USMC MOH winner of WWII, btw. Died in the 1st or 2nd day of Iwo Jima.

The M60E3 is fired from the hip regularly, if you notice it even has a pistol grip for the forward hand, .30 cal Browinings were very often fired from the hip, with the assistant gunner feeding the gun in the jungle fights in the Pacific.

I've seen some pretty big guys firing the M60 from the offhand position, but unless you're a powerlifter it is not a very stable position and you end up hitting not much of anything.

A .50 from the hip is something that I'd have to see to believe, the gun weighs 84 pounds and a full belt weighs about another 25 or so, not to mention the vicious recoil of the thing.

Gyrene

[Banshee]

Oh btw the 30 cal the Marine was using was WATER cooled, so much heavier than the air cooled one I had seen.

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra:

I have seen the FN MAG fired from the hip using the strap & bag arrangement previously described, as well as a cushion wrapped around the bipod to make a hand-grip. I don't know how its weight would compare with an M60 or MG34/42.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've hefted both the C6 (FN MAG) and MG 34 - they are about the same - or felt like it. The MG 34 seemed to be a bit longer, less easier to handle, but the two are roughly comparable in terms of weight and relative bulk.

The characteristics of the MG 34 are well known - here are the C6 for comparison

Weight

machine-gun: 11 kg

Length

machine-gun: 1.255 m

Mode of fire: Automatic only

Cyclic rate of fire: 650 to 1,000 rounds per minute

Operation: Gas-operated, air-cooled, belt-fed

Sight adjustment: 200 m to 1,800 m in 100 m increments

Effective range: 800 m on bipod

1,800 m on tripod

Seems about the same as an MG 34.

[ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[chrisl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R_Leet:

[QB]Mensch, that is an evil trick.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean, evil trick? It worked when I tried it, except the time when I accidentally made the stats screen come up six times and it changed the unit name to Bambi, instead of Rambi, and the little 3-D man turned into a deer and got shot by a sharpshooter.

I think the deer was made from the horse model that they put in and didn't use, but we'll probably see it in CM2.

[Echo]

I have fired the M60 from the hip, and shoulder. Its really not as heavy as it looks. You can put down good area fire from the hip, just walk your rounds into the target. (This is easier when firing at boats in the water, you can see the water gout from every round). I found firing from the shoulder to be nearly as accurate as firing the M14 the same way. Short bursts that way.

You haven't seen anything till you've witnessed 6 .50cals , 2 M60s, and a 35mm chain cannon blowing a boat out of the water. The volume of fire is friggin unbeleivable.