How Hot is Israel Gonna Get?

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

instead of vacations I'll just lock it up as soon as I see the first Nazi comment, or any of that type of stuff. 

The way the other Israel thread was going, that was definitely the correct approach.  Thanks for your 'moderating'...

[Thewood1]

I still don't understand the relevance to CMSF.  Israel vs terrorists in 2023 compared to NATO vs Syria in 2008?  Why not have the thread in CMBS?  The technology is more relevant there.

So why does it need to be discussed here?  There are thousands of forums, including one in the General forum here.

[Probus]

@Thewood1 Please just ignore this thread if it bothers you.  

The reason this thread was started in SF2 is that SF2 deals with asymmetrical warfare in the Middle East.  If Battlefront ever releases an upgrade for the Israel/Gaza war, it would go here (or be a completely new game).

This thread should discuss strategy and tactics of modern asymmetrical city warfare. It should also be a place where folks can upload links to relevant combat footage.  This will help in the generation of TOEs, scenarios and campaigns.

This war is history in the making and should not be overlooked.  There is also the possibility that it will spill over to other regions. Battlefront may decide to simulate this war especially if it grows out of hand. 

This thread is NOT a place where we discuss the politics of the region.  That would lead to a quagmire and @BFCElvis would be forced to shut 'er down.

[Grey_Fox]

4 hours ago, Probus said:

The reason this thread was started in SF2 is that SF2 deals with asymmetrical warfare in the Middle East.  If Battlefront ever releases an upgrade for the Israel/Gaza war, it would go here (or be a completely new game).

The reason I started this thread is because it's ridiculous that the most active thread on this forum is the Ukraine war thread and this is my protest. That's why I used the exact same title and exact same opening post as the Ukraine thread.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Grey_Fox

[Thewood1]

Well there is urban warfare in other titles too.  And CMSF has a lot more than urban warfare in it.   Its like this forum was chosen at random.  The game contain none of the countries, equipment, or country doctrines of the current war.  And its 15 years difference in time lines.

I think it was chosen because the OP and others saw this as a way to stir things up as much as possible.  Go look at the General forum thread.  How much tactical learning came out of that.  In fact, there is almost no tactical combat taking place right now.  Its mostly rockets, shelling, and special forces.  Point out the tactical learnings from that general thread that required someone to reignite it in this forum?

[Centurian52]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:00 AM, General Jack Ripper said:

Who cares? They've been killing each other for a century.
Nothing's changed.

75 years. And quite a bit has changed. It used to be a much broader Arab-Israeli conflict. Relations with neighboring Arab countries have normalized to some degree over the decades. Now it's mostly just an Israel-Palestine conflict (though Syria still resents the loss of the Golan heights, and I understand that Iran has probably been supporting Hamas).

[Probus]

https://www.wsj.com/video/idf-footage-shows-strikes-on-hezbollah-targets-on-lebanon-border/8B233590-3549-46B2-AD8D-254B3CD7630F.html

IDF Footage Shows Strikes on Lebanon Border

[Probus]

[Thewood1]

I'll apply those tactical nuggets to my next game of CMSF.

[BFCElvis]

10 hours ago, Thewood1 said:

Well there is urban warfare in other titles too.  And CMSF has a lot more than urban warfare in it.   Its like this forum was chosen at random.  The game contain none of the countries, equipment, or country doctrines of the current war.  And its 15 years difference in time lines.

I think it was chosen because the OP and others saw this as a way to stir things up as much as possible.  Go look at the General forum thread.  How much tactical learning came out of that.  In fact, there is almost no tactical combat taking place right now.  Its mostly rockets, shelling, and special forces.  Point out the tactical learnings from that general thread that required someone to reignite it in this forum?

I agree with most of this. Which is why I've no problem pulling the plug.

Why here? The noncoms and Middle East setting. it's here or the General Forum. 

[Thewood1]

General forum.  Let them restart it with the same ground rules.  Why put it here just because they couldn't behave themselves in the general forum?  They can be knuckleheads anywhere.

I'll point out I don't even bother going into the CMBS forum any more.  Started reading that thread and immediately put CMBS aside hoping it would eventually peter out.  No such luck.

[Centurian52]

I think the bickering over where this discussion belongs is counterproductive. If I had started it I would have put it in the General Forum, but the Middle East setting makes the CMSF2 Forum a natural choice too (none of the games have any of the countries or forces involved in the war). At the end of the day I really don't think it matters. Can we just discuss the war now?

[Probus]

A couple of days ago, Hamas claimed they ambushed and destroyed an IDF "tank". Does anyone know if it was a Merkava?  I was thinking the news may have classified an APC (M113?) As a "tank".  

[Brille]

I´m with @Thewood1 on this topic.

This discussion has nothing to do in the slightest with the game itself so why not put it in the general section where it belongs ?

I would add the Ukraine thread there too even though this thread at least has ties to the actual game (CMBS).

Never the less these topics give no benefits to the games of what I can see.

Or are we entitled now to post anywhere we want ? Who cares about sections anymore aye ? Maybe I soon will post a Napoleonic war thread in CMRT ?

Russians had a big part in it...and the time difference is not that big....who cares. It surely will help developing tactics for the game....somehow....  

 

I know that people want to talk about every bit about current events and they surely should but can we keep up at least a little cut between those and the games ?

For me I already get bombarded with what´s happening in the world by the media and I really don´t need that in my hobby. If I want the news about the most recent drone attack or another soviet made tank which throws it´s turret, I have my sources to check or I can go in the RIGHT section of these forums.

 

 

[Centurian52]

I'm still catching up with a backlog of ISW reports, so I don't have the latest just yet (I'm now reading their Ukraine-Russia, China-Taiwan, and their Iran updates). But they have started covering the Israel-Hamas war in their daily Iran updates.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-october-23-2023

[Centurian52]

59 minutes ago, Brille said:

I´m with @Thewood1 on this topic.

This discussion has nothing to do in the slightest with the game itself so why not put it in the general section where it belongs ?

I would add the Ukraine thread there too even though this thread at least has ties to the actual game (CMBS).

Never the less these topics give no benefits to the games of what I can see.

Or are we entitled now to post anywhere we want ? Who cares about sections anymore aye ? Maybe I soon will post a Napoleonic war thread in CMRT ?

Russians had a big part in it...and the time difference is not that big....who cares. It surely will help developing tactics for the game....somehow....  

 

I know that people want to talk about every bit about current events and they surely should but can we keep up at least a little cut between those and the games ?

For me I already get bombarded with what´s happening in the world by the media and I really don´t need that in my hobby. If I want the news about the most recent drone attack or another soviet made tank which throws it´s turret, I have my sources to check or I can go in the RIGHT section of these forums.

 

 

Is the choice of Forum optimal? Probably not.

Does it really matter enough to keep derailing the discussion? Definitely not.

[A Canadian Cat]

19 hours ago, Brille said:

Never the less these topics give no benefits to the games of what I can see.

I really don't think that is true at all. Learning how things are playing out in an actual conflict is now these games were designed. A lot of that work was done learning about history for years and years by Steve and many many others. The fact that we have a conflict on going with direct relevance to tactics and equipment is unusual but the learning is going on. Lots of learning. Sure Steve and Charles et al are not beavering away and making changes that you see tomorrow but there is no question that this learning is good for the games (feels gross saying it). Kinda like people's learning over decades went into CMBO the learning going on now is going to pay off in the years to come.

You can bitch and moan about "not working on the game", "too busy posting to work" all you want but it's just whining that's all.

[Centurian52]

Don't most of the Israeli Merkavas have Trophy? CMBS teased that hard-kill APS was going to be a prominent feature of ground warfare in the near-future. But APS have been mostly absent from the fighting in Ukraine. Assuming there's a ground invasion of the Gaza strip we might finally be able to start getting a significant number of data points for how well these kind of APS systems perform in real combat, and what sort of countermeasures work well against them (salvoing two or more missiles so the second hits before the APS can reset, and degradation fire with autocannons to destroy the APS are two countermeasures I've already heard suggested). I'm guessing that APS will significantly improve a tank's survivability, but that effective counters to the APS will be found which will mean that tanks will remain (as always) far from invincible. I've already seen one drone video of a grenade being dropped onto a Merkava. The video didn't show clearly that the tank had been destroyed (despite the caption claiming that the tank had been destroyed), but I bet any subsystems on the roof of the tank (such as the APS) would have been seriously degraded.

[Vacillator]

20 hours ago, Brille said:

I already get bombarded with what´s happening in the world by the media

Except that I would say that the Ukraine thread was my number one source of information earlier in the invasion and it was quite reassuring to have timely and knowledgeable comments and analysis of events . In comparison many of the news providers were either too slow to report things (sometimes for good reason), or inaccurate, or didn't know whether an APC was a tank etc. etc.

19 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

Is the choice of Forum optimal? Probably not.

Does it really matter enough to keep derailing the discussion? Definitely not.

I agree and sorry, no more derailing posts from me .

[Probus]

Another good article about the war by the ISW:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-october-24-2023

I would also like to agree with @Vacillator that the Ukrainian thread is my #1 source of information on that war, with reports and analysis beating the news media almost every time.

[Probus]

An interesting video about the Merkava. Some recent footage and some historical footage.

[Probus]

Hamas tries to infiltrate using frogmen:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/israel-gaza-situation-report-hamas-frogmen-attempt-to-infiltrate-near-israeli-base

US wants Israel to delay ground invasion so that it can beef up air defenses:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/israel-gaza-situation-report-delay-of-ground-offensive-agreed-to

On the other hand a live feed of the possible start of the invasion:

Edited October 25, 2023 by Probus

[Harmon Rabb]

I think folks who have followed this threads sister Ukrainian war thread, recognize these two characters by the names of MacGregor and Tucker.Both have a penchant for telling outright lies.

Unless I see some solid evidence, I think I'm going to have to press "X" to doubt this claim.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Harmon Rabb

[Vergeltungswaffe]

This is why I left the Ukraine thread months ago.

Here come the political opinions...

[Centurian52]

1 hour ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

This is why I left the Ukraine thread months ago.

Here come the political opinions...

The politics did get out of hand on a few occasions. But I think Steve has generally done a good job of moderating that thread. The only reason I'm not over there right now is that I've mostly given up on trying to keep up. I can only do so much reading in a day, and that quota is already mostly filled with ISW reports (I've got lots of doctrinal manuals and campaign studies that I'm also trying to get through).