Do you plan to play your computer games if household energy bills will rise even higher?

[BornGinger]

A few days ago I got my electricity bill for the three months that have gone by and was shocked that they expect me to pay ~£60 although I doubt that I have used more electricity since the last time I payed for the electricity.

To get hot water and to prepare food I use gas. The electricity runs the lamps, the fridge, the computer and the gas boiler.

I haven't bothered about getting internet and I don't play very much on my computer and usually use it for watching films and reading something I have downloaded from the internet I use at work, the library, the pub or through some other open wifi.

Quote

The energy price cap - the maximum amount suppliers can charge customers in England, Scotland and Wales for each unit of energy - will go up in October.

Energy industry analysts Cornwall Insight predict an average annual bill will reach £3,582 at this point - £200 higher than the previous estimate.

And in January 2023, the next time the cap is due to be changed, it expects it to go up again to £4,266.

I know that a computer usually doesn't use very much electricity. But if the computer is a gaming computer with a top-notch graphics card the use of electricity when playing more modern games will most likely go up.

Those of you who live in the UK, and those of you who live in another country but also risk getting much higher energy bills, are you planning to play less computer games and start reading more than you do now or have you decided to wait and see?

Edited August 18, 2022 by BornGinger

[landser]

Rising power costs are painful, but I would take on a second job rather than curtail my gaming (which it should be noted, would curtail my gaming since I'd be working more, so maybe not the point I think it is!)

This won't affect my gaming habits. And anyway it would have to get far worse for it to be an issue I'd need to deal with. I could cut back elsewhere if it really came to that.

[Erwin]

Very sorry (and alarmed) to hear about the UK energy crisis.  My elderly disabled mother lives in London and your post reminds me that I need to contact her utility cos to make sure she gets all available discounts and can still afford to heat (and live in) her home. 

 

[Redwolf]

How much are they charging per KW*hour?

[chuckdyke]

12 hours ago, landser said:

Rising power costs are painful, but I would take on a second job rather than curtail my gaming (which it should be noted, would curtail my gaming since I'd be working more, so maybe not the point I think it is!)

Go solar my last three-month bill was AUS$23. Sometimes I am in credit. 

[Livdoc44]

@BornGinger  Do you have the ability to invest in a gaming laptop? Without sounding flippant, I'm in New England (USA) and the cost of everything has increased significantly, if not as much as in the UK. It's been a hot and humid summer and running the A/C has cost us a lot of money. Thankfully I purchased a Lenovo gaming laptop a few months ago - under the guise of needing it for work - with a laptop RTX 3050 graphics card that absolutely crushes all CMx2 games. Battery life is 2-3 hours if I don't have things running in the background. It's a significant upfront cost but I see myself having this device for a long time, given the longevity of Battlefront games and it of course it runs the random stuff that I need for work as teacher. Full disclosure, I have a much more beefier rig for sims DCS/IL-2 Great Battles so my laptop is pretty much solely for Combat Mission so I use electricity besides the laptop so its not a panacea.

[BornGinger]

@Livdoc44  I have an old Dell gaming laptop but the battery is dead so I have to use electricity.

[womble]

1 hour ago, BornGinger said:

@Livdoc44  I have an old Dell gaming laptop but the battery is dead so I have to use electricity.

Whether the battery is dead or not doesn't reduce the use of household juice much... unless you can charge it on someone else's tab.

[Vacillator]

I don't think cutting my gaming hours would make much of a dent in my energy bills.  The fridge-freezer, chest freezer, electric oven and hob, washing machine etc. are probably more to blame.  You guessed it we have no mains gas here.

And when it gets to winter, we're on oil-fired heating and a wood burner.  God only knows what that'll cost this year.

Solar might be part of a solution (althought we don't have Chuckdyke's weather most of the time).  I also don't have a huge South facing roof to stick panels on...

I'll just have to spend less on wine, women and song.  Or rum, bum and baccy as I'm told they say in the Navy.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:23 AM, Redwolf said:

How much are they charging per KW*hour?

I’m on a standard tariff with the supplier (fixed deal ended at just the wrong time) and it’s 27.09p per kWh and there’s a standing charge of 48.91p per day for electricity. It was half that this time last year and not looking forward to October when it all goes up again.

Won’t stop me playing though

MMM

Edited August 21, 2022 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Oh and petrol peaked at almost £1.90 per litre for unleaded, it’s dropped to just under £1.70 but it’s still crippling for a lot of people.

MMM

[Erwin]

On 8/19/2022 at 8:02 PM, chuckdyke said:

Go solar my last three-month bill was AUS$23. Sometimes I am in credit. 

How much did the installation cost?  

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

How much did the installation cost?  

I am on a pension a lot was subsidized by the government. People buy it of the plan like $35 a week for 5 years the scheme is your bill remains the same more or less. After five years the savings kick in. I am seventy-two now and have had it for years the big saving comes from the airconditioning system which heats in the winter and cools in the summer and the shower. 

[Erwin]

Same here...  If you got it cheap that is great.  Over here people spend $15K-$25K easy... and then the effectiveness/efficiency declines so that they have to be replaced after 15 years or so. 

Similar problem with electric cars...  Huge pollution cost to produce...  and then after 10 or so years the batteries are crap and so expensive, ya may as well junk the car and buy another car that creates huge pollution to manufacture.  I love my 24 year old ICE truck and 15 year old ICE sports car.  Saved hundreds of thousands not having to buy new vehicles for a couple decades.  I feel good about creating less pollution from the gas than one would producing new vehicles.  

Hope the technology improves and price comes down to where Solar installation makes financial sense.   Altho' obviously there is advantage if our civilization continues to decline and we have frequent black-outs and solar may become essential where one has a lot of sun.  I live in the sunny desert so it would work for me.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by Erwin

[danfrodo]

59 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Same here...  If you got it cheap that is great.  Over here people spend $15K-$25K easy... and then the effectiveness/efficiency declines so that they have to be replaced after 15 years or so. 

Similar problem with electric cars...  Huge pollution cost to produce...  and then after 10 or so years the batteries are crap and so expensive, ya may as well junk the car and buy another car that creates huge pollution to manufacture.  I love my 24 year old ICE truck and 15 year old ICE sports car.  Saved hundreds of thousands not having to buy new vehicles for a couple decades.  I feel good about creating less pollution from the gas than one would producing new vehicles.  

Hope the technology improves and price comes down to where Solar installation makes financial sense.   Altho' obviously there is advantage if our civilization continues to decline and we have frequent black-outs and solar may become essential where one has a lot of sun.  I live in the sunny desert so it would work for me.  

I'm sorry, is it 1999?  Those are very very very outdated talking points with huge amounts of data showing it's not true.  We all love our ICE vehicles, but they have a terrible cost.

Electric car battery pollution during production?  Yes.  But compare that to ~400 or 500 gallons of gas burned per year for pollution x 10 years = 5000 gallons of gas. Plus oil changes.  Extraction pollution, refinement pollution, and then huge pollution of burning of 5000 gallons of gas -- PER CAR.  There's simply no comparison.  And the utter simplicity of electric cars compared to ICE -- super complicated fuel system, but metal engine w tons of moving parts, and a horrifically complicated transmission (unless new CVT; note. I worked a few years at Ford Transmission Division).

Plus note that any change in efficiency in electricity generation will make the entire electric car fleet instantly more efficient.  Changes in efficiency for ICE cars can only come by getting new car.  

ANd solar cells are now rated for 25 years.  Efficiency degrades over time but not so much as to make them no longer work.  They are still fine for 25 years -- not a lot of stuff rated to work that long.  Plus the huge pull on electric grid is for air conditioning.  Solar panels not only power the AC but also reduce the solar load on the house.   It's a no-brainer in southern US.  

Most places in US have credit system.  During summer the panels pump more energy than the house needs, which goes into the grid.  In winter, you get those credits back, so basically no electric bill -- if you are in good solar setting (trees, etc).

Edited August 22, 2022 by danfrodo
math edit

[danfrodo]

Where I live, Oregon, the payments of the panels are basically same as electric bill -- but would have no electric bill.  And after panels paid off in 5-10 years, then over a decade w no electric bill.  

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, danfrodo said:

But compare that to ~400 or 500 gallons of gas burned per year for pollution x 10 years

After 10 years one needs a new electric car since battery is so expensive.  Massive pollution to build and then to dispose of.  Of course all that pollution is taking place abroad (anyone else been to India and China and suffered the pollution??).  We can virtue signal how wonderful we are in the west.  But, you admit the batteries degrade.  So, 300 mile range becomes what?  200, 250?  Either way no use to those of use who have to drive those distances and more.  I need a car that can reliably drive at least 400 miles in one go.  Who wants to wait for charging for 30-45 mins assuming one can even find a working charger.  I recall a recent WSJ article written by folks who experimentally tried to drive long distances using chargers and found that many were already broken or slow and it took far more time to make their trip and cost a lot more than the equivalent in gas.

We already have regular blackouts due to energy shortages.  Where will the energy come from to charge all those electric cars if we have insufficient energy to power our homes now - when there are so few electric vehicles???  The cart has been put b4 the horse.  Need to have sufficient electric energy generation BEFORE one converts to electric cars.  Everyone driving electric cars is a wonderful concept - but don't envisage the infrastructure being available for another 15-30 years - assuming some better solution doesn't surface.

Re panels, am seriously considering as we live where the sun shines strongly about 300 days of the year.  But, to spend $15K-$25K now and then do it again in 15-20 years...?   Am confident that economically it's not worth it even with subsidies.  It's as silly as buying a new car every 3-4 years cos it gives a few extra miles per gallon, and having it depreciate 30% the moment you drive off the lot.  But, I admit that the convenience of never having to worry about power cuts is also worth something.  But you have to live where the sun shines a lot.  A few days of bad weather and your battery is discharged - unless you also are connected to a grid.  Around where I am the utility co charges people MORE (min usage plus connection fees) if they have solar panels and are grid connected.  Gotta keep them profits high regardless...

Edited August 22, 2022 by Erwin

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, danfrodo said:

And the utter simplicity of electric cars compared to ICE

So what?  Are you saying repairs will be "so much cheaper"?  Heard that one b4.  Why are they so expensive?  Why are manufacturers raising prices so that ordinary folks can't afford them?  I suspect that its because its known that we do not possess the power generation capacity to charge more electric cars than the trickle that are currently being newly purchased.  The only people I see driving electrics (in my neck of the woods anyhow) are virtue-signalling well-to do elites - who also have a Mercedes or Porsche tucked away.  And what about all those private planes?  Anyone know what the pollution ratio is between private plane per mile and cars per mile?  

[Artkin]

Until solid state batteries come by I won't be diving into this nonsense. Lithium-ion sucks. What to do with the expended batteries? This was a problem before electric cars. Now the problem is compounded. 

For sure electric is more efficient and more powerful. Therefore it would make sense to limit its application. Maybe a small battery to help drive semi trucks at low speeds, so they can swap to a different, smaller engine which could operate when the load is moving. 

Thats just some bull**** quick thinking example. Otherwise, batteries to me are completely disgusting technology (Used en masse), and people that glorify them are clueless. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Artkin

[danfrodo]

Seriously, you are bringing up stuff from 20 years ago.  And private planes? -- what;'s that got to do w anything?

  Not all electric cars are crazy expensive. There's lots of them that are built for city travel.  And all those SUVs out on the road in the US cost like $50k or more.  The new jeep wagoneer starts at $61k.  The grand wagoneer starts at $90k. So again explain to me how electric cars are expensive?  Yes, on the low end they can be, but not on the medium or high end. 

But the big problem is that you seem to think we can just keep doing what we are doing.  We most certainly can't.  So maybe look at the places where you get your information.  Did they spend last 2 decades saying climate change was a hoax?  Do you still keep getting info from sources that were obviously lying to you?   These are just propaganda points of folks tied to fossil fuel industry.  Why do so many people continue to listen to sources that have been caught red-handed lying to them about science, over & over & over?

51 minutes ago, Erwin said:

After 10 years one needs a new electric car since battery is so expensive.  Massive pollution to build and then to dispose of.  Of course all that pollution is taking place abroad (anyone else been to India and China and suffered the pollution??).  We can virtue signal how wonderful we are in the west.  But, you admit the batteries degrade.  So, 300 mile range becomes what?  200, 250?  Either way no use to those of use who have to drive those distances and more.  I need a car that can reliably drive at least 400 miles in one go.  Who wants to wait for charging for 30-45 mins assuming one can even find a working charger.  I recall a recent WSJ article written by folks who experimentally tried to drive long distances using chargers and found that many were already broken or slow and it took far more time to make their trip and cost a lot more than the equivalent in gas.

We already have regular blackouts due to energy shortages.  Where will the energy come from to charge all those electric cars if we have insufficient energy to power our homes now - when there are so few electric vehicles???  The cart has been put b4 the horse.  Need to have sufficient electric energy generation BEFORE one converts to electric cars.  Everyone driving electric cars is a wonderful concept - but don't envisage the infrastructure being available for another 15-30 years - assuming some better solution doesn't surface.

Re panels, am seriously considering as we live where the sun shines strongly about 300 days of the year.  But, to spend $15K-$25K now and then do it again in 15-20 years...?   Am confident that economically it's not worth it even with subsidies.  It's as silly as buying a new car every 3-4 years cos it gives a few extra miles per gallon, and having it depreciate 30% the moment you drive off the lot.  But, I admit that the convenience of never having to worry about power cuts is also worth something.  But you have to live where the sun shines a lot.  A few days of bad weather and your battery is discharged - unless you also are connected to a grid.  Around where I am the utility co charges people MORE (min usage plus connection fees) if they have solar panels and are grid connected.  Gotta keep them profits high regardless...

solar panels:  note that for 20-25 years the person has zero electric bill, with solar paid off in 5-10.  So $1200 per year electric means they've saved $12-24k over that time. AFTER paying for the panels.  Geeez, Erwin, ya gotta stop repeating talking points and do some actual research into this stuff.  I've seen your posts and you are way too smart to let these con men tell you what's what.

Watch over this decade how the entire in-city and local distrubution truck fleets become electric.  Because it's cheaper.  They've (trucking fleet companies) done business studies and know this to be true.  And not sensitive to roller coaster of fuel prices.  And they'll use as much solar as they can to generate energy, stored in batteries.

 

One last addition:  the reason we have rolling blackouts is because of AIR CONDITIONING which is caused by THE SUN.  If 10 years ago we had mandated all new construction in SW to have solar panels we'd NEVER have blackouts due to summer overload.  And all those houses would be enjoying electric bill so ZERO.

Edited August 22, 2022 by danfrodo
addition

[Artkin]

The battery packs for EVs is nuts. Youre paying as much as if you were getting a high performance ICE. In the case of Tesla, youre paying more for the battery than you would pay for a high performance crate engine. 

Nearly every manufacturer is producing overly lavish street stallions for the road after seeing the absolute killing Mercedes has been making for the past decade in the US. 

Full electric trucks do not exist (Not counting the new Rivian), the GVW would be too high with the weight of the battery. Hence the issue with the Tesla Cybertruck. Up the weight with the battery, lose payload to meet highway standards. Thats my understanding. 

Solar panels don't seem mature enough yet, and they really should at least attempt to replace roof panels with them, like Tesla wanted to do years ago. Probably not enough money in it, or they were already in way over their own heads monetarily at the time. 

The big question is what to do with the pollution. Put it in the ground? 

At least with gasoline some of the pollution is absorbed back into the oceans, and the greenery.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Artkin

[chuckdyke]

20 minutes ago, Artkin said:

Solar panels don't seem mature enough yet,

I am one happy customer, $20 for three months was my power bill last time. The climate change debate should be objective and not follow the agenda of politicians. Coal mining I like to get an explanation of how we could manufacture steel without coal. Yes for the household there are better ways to get electricity than fossil fuels. 

[danfrodo]

I think the big picture is that it's not black and white.  We will not be 100% fossil fuel free, maybe forever.  So what?  Reducing by 1/2 would be amazing for a huge number or reasons, some of which are looking rather existential. 

Solar panels are fine, they are mature enough, like ChuckDyke said.  That's just old news.  My neighborhood has lots of houses w solar panels.  Some w panels 10+ years old, and they are working fine, the owners are happy when I ask them.  And the new ones are way better. 

Artkin, do you not own a thermometer?  Temperatures are rising even faster than 'alarmists' were predicting 10 years ago.  Not making the pollution is the best thing, when it's possible.  And it doesn't matter if it's not 100% possible to leave fossil fuels, what matters is doing what makes sense to reduce this.  In the US everyone is driving around in vehicles that easily burn 2-3X what is needed for the transportation task.  It's just insane. 

[chuckdyke]

3 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

In the US everyone is driving around in vehicles that easily burn 2-3X what is needed for the transportation task.

I was born in Amsterdam cars in inner cities were not practical. People used public transport which were the trams and they run on the electrical grid. The question is what less polluting private cars or coal burning power stations. Domestic use is well served by solar panels at least. 

[Artkin]

37 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

I think the big picture is that it's not black and white.  We will not be 100% fossil fuel free, maybe forever.  So what?  Reducing by 1/2 would be amazing for a huge number or reasons, some of which are looking rather existential. 

Solar panels are fine, they are mature enough, like ChuckDyke said.  That's just old news.  My neighborhood has lots of houses w solar panels.  Some w panels 10+ years old, and they are working fine, the owners are happy when I ask them.  And the new ones are way better. 

Artkin, do you not own a thermometer?  Temperatures are rising even faster than 'alarmists' were predicting 10 years ago.  Not making the pollution is the best thing, when it's possible.  And it doesn't matter if it's not 100% possible to leave fossil fuels, what matters is doing what makes sense to reduce this.  In the US everyone is driving around in vehicles that easily burn 2-3X what is needed for the transportation task.  It's just insane. 

If the issue is purely pollution then maybe electric vehicles should wait until all the power stations are nuclear. And if the issue is having more than you need then perhaps we should take note from countries like India or Thailand where a large portion of people use bikes. Switching to EV does not end pollution, it just puts it somewhere else. Just like Carbon settles in the oceans, lithium will return to the ground. On US soil. Ev's are barely part of that problem as a whole though admittedly. 

My issue is with Lithium. It sucks.

Solar panels... not that efficient. Didnt last too long originally, but apparently now theyre better. They definitely wont be solving man's demand for power alone unless you cover parts of the ocean. And even then, there will probably be large ecological consequences. 

What is the right solution? 

I'd probably say Nuclear power and solid state batteries to hold it all. But I have limited knowledge on this topic

Edited August 23, 2022 by Artkin