Two small issues about Soviet tactics

[DMS]

1) In Soviet MR platoon was PL assistant who stayed in BMP/BTR as commander of platoon's vehicles. (I noted that in CMBS Ukrainian MR platoon is organised in this way, but why only Ukrainian?)

2) Soviet riflemen were taught to fire short bursts instead of single shots. It's less effective and ammo consuming, but it was in doctrine. 

May be this issues are worth to fix. I may post proofs if needed.

 

[Erwin]

Having had opportunity to fire AK47, it was clear that shooting while moving was very inaccurate and a complete waste of ammo - but perhaps it was supposed to boost morale and help psychologically(?)

[AttorneyAtWar]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

Having had opportunity to fire AK47, it was clear that shooting while moving was very inaccurate and a complete waste of ammo - but perhaps it was supposed to boost morale and help psychologically(?)

No Erwin, you just don't know how to handle a firearm and no one is surprised.

 

[Erwin]

Well that is certainly true.  Would love to see an example of someone running while firing an AK47 accurately.  You have one to watch?

[chuckdyke]

If lots of people shoot the banana rifle on full auto you tend to duck and that is the idea of this weapon. Shoot Olympic rapid fire you better stand still and aim for each of the five shots. Amazing how much time 4 seconds is. 

[Lethaface]

8 hours ago, Erwin said:

Well that is certainly true.  Would love to see an example of someone running while firing an AK47 accurately.  You have one to watch?

Nobody was talking shooting while moving with an AK47, DMS was talking about 'burst' fire instead of single shots.

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Nobody was talking shooting while moving with an AK47, DMS was talking about 'burst' fire instead of single shots.

Fair enuff.  I was visualizing the videos we've seen of troops running beside their BMP's firing from the hip.  

[Grey_Fox]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Fair enuff.  I was visualizing the videos we've seen of troops running beside their BMP's firing from the hip.  

Marching or Walking Fire was doctrinal for a number of armies in the past. Certain units do it today - for instance this is recent footage from a Delta Force hostage rescue training exercise which shows them firing on the move when assaulting a building:

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Grey_Fox

[DMS]

7 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Nobody was talking shooting while moving with an AK47, DMS was talking about 'burst' fire instead of single shots.

Correct. But shooting while moving was taught also. I read in one textbook that officer shouldn't allow soldiers to make short stops while attacking. I am not sure is it possible to model with CM engine, if it is possible, it also would better simulate Soviet infantry tactics.

Edited January 3, 2022 by DMS

[Bufo]

21 hours ago, Erwin said:

Having had opportunity to fire AK47, it was clear that shooting while moving was very inaccurate and a complete waste of ammo - but perhaps it was supposed to boost morale and help psychologically(?)

How is firing an AK-47 on the move different from firing an M-16 on the move?

[fireship4]

Recoil?

[Bufo]

1 hour ago, fireship4 said:

Recoil?

You are firing from hip and the recoil is not much on an ak-47

[zmoney]

I believe they were using AK-74s by then anyway, not much difference to M16. You would not need to use single shot while on the jog, burst fire would be better. Suppression and maybe getting a lucky hit. And I believe OP is referring to when the Soviets are attacking a position. Finally burst fire is what I always witness being use (for both sides) unless the distance to target is far.

Edited January 4, 2022 by zmoney

[Phantom Captain]

14 minutes ago, zmoney said:

I believe they were using AK-74s by then anyway, not much difference to M16. You would not need to use single shot while on the jog, burst fire would be better. Suppression and maybe getting a lucky hit. And I believe OP is referring to when the Soviets are attacking a position. Finally burst fire is what I always witness being use (for both sides) unless the distance to target is far.

They are using the AK-74 with the 5.45mm round.  Additionally the AK-74 has a compensator on the end that completely negates barrel rise from recoil.  You can easily see the compensator on the barrels of the 74s in the game   I owned one at one time and it was amazing how effective the compensator is and how accurate and smooth the rifle itself is.  Honestly, of all the modern military rifles I've owned at one point the 74 was my favorite.  

So back on point, firing the 74 from the hip or on the move, single shot or short burst is not going to recoil much at all and with a bit of experience wouldn't be difficult to keep shots in the general area you are pointing at. 

[arkhangelsk2021]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:01 AM, DMS said:

Correct. But shooting while moving was taught also. I read in one textbook that officer shouldn't allow soldiers to make short stops while attacking. I am not sure is it possible to model with CM engine, if it is possible, it also would better simulate Soviet infantry tactics.

Which one. Because Article 97 of Chapter VIII of Part 2 of the official AK-74 manual (as translated by Gebhardt) says:

Quote

97. The rifle/machine gun can be fired from various positions and from any location from which the target is visible or a piece of terrain can be seen on which the appearance of the enemy is anticipated.

When conducting stationary dismounted fire, the rifleman/machine gunner takes up a standing, kneeling, or prone position (depending on the conditions of the ter rain and enemy fire). During movement, the rifleman/machine gunner can conduct on the move and at short halts.

When moving by armored transporter, infantry fighting vehicle, truck, tank, and amphibious assault vehicles, the rifleman/machine gunner uses a firing position suitable for himself for the conduct of fire, observing safety measures.

U.S.S.R Army. The Official Soviet AK-74 Manual: Operating Instructions for the 5.45mm Kalashnikov Assault Rifle (AK-74 and KS-74) and Kalashnikov Light Machine Gun (RPK-74 and RPKS-74) (Kindle Locations 708-711). Kindle Edition. 

To be fair, the same manual heavily recommends automatic fire, such as:

Quote

Automatic fire is the primary form of fire:

U.S.S.R Army. The Official Soviet AK-74 Manual: Operating Instructions for the 5.45mm Kalashnikov Assault Rifle (AK-74 and KS-74) and Kalashnikov Light Machine Gun (RPK-74 and RPKS-74) (Kindle Location 51). Kindle Edition. 

And it is filled with explicit references as to when you should use "bursts", such as:

Quote

170. Fire at attacking enemy personnel at ranges of 200 meters and closer in long bursts, distributing the fire across the front of the target.

U.S.S.R Army. The Official Soviet AK-74 Manual: Operating Instructions for the 5.45mm Kalashnikov Assault Rifle (AK-74 and KS-74) and Kalashnikov Light Machine Gun (RPK-74 and RPKS-74) (Kindle Locations 1020-1021). Kindle Edition. 

Any suggestion as when semiautomatic fire is preferable is never explicit, only inferable, such as the above ... am I supposed to infer that if the range is above 200m I should use semiautomatic fire?

Edited January 5, 2022 by arkhangelsk2021

[LukeFF]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:41 PM, chuckdyke said:

If lots of people shoot the banana rifle on full auto you tend to duck and that is the idea of this weapon.

Nonsense

[DMS]

7 hours ago, arkhangelsk2021 said:

Any suggestion as when semiautomatic fire is preferable is never explicit, only inferable, such as the above ... am I supposed to infer that if the range is above 200m I should use semiautomatic fire?

No, in all other paragraphs of the manual (166-170) is told to fire bursts. Semi-auto fire isn't mentioned. 

[Lethaface]

I'd expect soldiers to use their own brain as well and if they know/ feel using semi auto is more effective they'll use that even if the book says differently.