Khrizantema blindness

[dbsapp]

Why Khrizantema's visibility in game is much worse than BMP-3 if Khrizantema is literally built on BMP-3 chassis and has improved vision equipment, including radar?

[DMS]

I guess that sensor height is modelled lower than it should be. May be engine limitation. It is common problem for all ATGM vehicles, BRDMSs also can't see being in defilade, BMP ATGM can't be used while BMP with turret is defiladed.

[dbsapp]

I suppose that Russian AFV's visibility in game has always been the issue of game design\political bias, it doesn't depend on any facts. 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

[slysniper]

How many times must one say there is bias spotting in the game mechanics before it becomes true. 

well, you have 330 post, I sure hope its not 100 times already

 

I understand why it seems that way, but if there is any proof to it other than unfounded claims I really would like to see it.

 

But I will counter with the comment that the system seems pretty accurate. Why, where did the bias go in CMCW. 

What, there is Russian units that out spot US counter parts in that period of play. So did they just forget to put their bias calcs to that game or is it the engine does what it is entended to do and it kicks out pretty good results.

For a game that tries it best to put every aspect to a mathimatical output from what data and infomation that is available. Its amazing how many will wish that they just throw in unreal numbers to suit threir bias wants. (what sence does that make in any way, oh I know---propaganda, that must be it)

[zmoney]

Ask yourself this; what RL AFV would you rather be in, US or Russian equivalent? In a real life situation of course. I’ve wondered what your answer would be. I do think there could be tweaks made but I think you’re a little dramatic. I doubt very much that BFC hates Russia some much they made a game just to beat the hell outta some Ruskies

[chuckdyke]

4 hours ago, zmoney said:

US or Russian equivalent

US its HQ can call in the air force and heavy artillery if it is WW2 it mirrors real life there. But I understand you meant post WW2 the precise Russian capabilities are probably highly classified. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by chuckdyke

[LukeFF]

22 hours ago, dbsapp said:

I suppose that Russian AFV's visibility in game has always been the issue of game design\political bias, it doesn't depend on any facts. 

riiiiiiiight

[dbsapp]

11 hours ago, slysniper said:

I understand why it seems that way, but if there is any proof to it other than unfounded claims I really would like to see it.

You are welcome

[dbsapp]

10 hours ago, zmoney said:

I doubt very much that BFC hates Russia some much they made a game just to beat the hell outta some Ruskies

I doubt it as well and don't mean that there is some kind of consipiracy.

What I'm saying is that game model needs improvement and could be improved.

 

[SergeantSqook]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:20 PM, dbsapp said:

I suppose that Russian AFV's visibility in game has always been the issue of game design\political bias, it doesn't depend on any facts. 

 

5 hours ago, dbsapp said:

I doubt it as well and don't mean that there is some kind of consipiracy.

What I'm saying is that game model needs improvement and could be improved.

 

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Going back to the original point.....IIRC @Aquila-SmartWargames made a good video, highlighting the unique features that Battlefront built into their model of the 9P157-2, but annoyingly I can't find it. 

If they hated the Russians so much why would they bother to do all that? 

Irritatingly their excellent model of the 9P157-2 is marred by a bug shared by, AFAIK, all of the ATGM vehicles in the game.....The current inability to model telescopic launchers & sights.  I'm absoulutely confident that Battlefront can and will fix this (and may have already done so in their work on CM:Pro).

@dbsapp  I perceived the same bias as you do when I started playing CM:BS, but after some (occasionally heated) discussions hereabouts I've come to the conclusion that there is no intentional bias & no tricks under the surface. 

The game engine has its quirks and these can produce effects that can seem uncannily like an Abrams deploying a cloaking device etc. but this isn't the result of a deliberate policy, far from it.....In my experience Battlefront have done everything possible to iron out every bug that we have demonstrated to exist and I know that they continue to do exactly the same thing right now.

PS - @Battlefront.com  Can I have my Uncon Breach Teams now? 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[dbsapp]

30 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Going back to the original point.....IIRC @Aquila-SmartWargames made a good video, highlighting the unique features that Battlefront built into their model of the 9P157-2, but annoyingly I can't find it. 

If they hated the Russians so much why would they bother to do all that? 

Irritatingly their excellent model of the 9P157-2 is marred by a bug shared by, AFAIK, all of the ATGM vehicles in the game.....The current inability to model telescopic launchers & sights.  I'm absoulutely confident that Battlefront can and will fix this (and may have already done so in their work on CM:Pro).

@dbsapp  I perceived the same bias as you do when I started playing CM:BS, but after some (occasionally heated) discussions hereabouts I've come to the conclusion that there is no intentional bias & no tricks under the surface. 

The game engine has its quirks and these can produce effects that can seem uncannily like an Abrams deploying a cloaking device etc. but this isn't the result of a deliberate policy, far from it.....In my experience Battlefront have done everything possible to iron out every bug that we have demonstrated to exist and I know that they continue to do exactly the same thing right now.

PS - @Battlefront.com  Can I have my Uncon Breach Teams now? 

I guess it's much more simple than that.

It stems from the game design philosophy, e.g. how they percieve the world they create. The underlying proposition is that Russian AFV are inferior comparing to the Western. 

In game they have some sort if index or indexes that determines spotting abilities. 

They conceptually decided that - let's say - Russian AFV's spotting should be 40% of US. For example, Abrams has 100 spotting points and t90 - 40 points.

You may say that it's more complicated, that CM simulates different systems and subststems, which may be is true, but the baseline is that everything has some sort of quantative measurement.

In the end it leads to some buggy consequences, like Russian tanks are blind beyond 2 km range in CMCW. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

12 minutes ago, dbsapp said:

In the end it leads to some buggy consequences, like Russian tanks are blind beyond 2 km range in CMCW. 

Which Russian tanks?  When?  Under what circumstances?

[dbsapp]

20 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Which Russian tanks?  When?  Under what circumstances?

I was talking in general. 

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Irritatingly their excellent model of the 9P157-2 is marred by a bug shared by, AFAIK, all of the ATGM vehicles in the game.....The current inability to model telescopic launchers & sights. 

@dbsapp

+1.  What @Sgt.Squarehead said above is probably a large part of the problem.  I'm not sure if its a bug or engine limitation but it is shared across all nationalities.  If you want to lobby Battlefront to model telescopic sights I'm with you, my friend.  We can add unconventional forces with demo charges and modern mine plows to the list.  

It's in our gaming interest to have the simulation as realistic as possible and our small community as united as possible.   

[dbsapp]

Just now, MOS:96B2P said:

@dbsapp

+1.  What @Sgt.Squarehead said above is probably a large part of the problem.  I'm not sure if its a bug or engine limitation but it is shared across all nationalities.  If you want to lobby Battlefront to model telescopic sights I'm with you, my friend.  We can add unconventional forces with demo charges and modern mine plows to the list.  

It's in our gaming interest to have the simulation as realistic as possible and our small community as united as possible.   

Absolutely agree with you 

[slysniper]

 

On 10/16/2021 at 11:20 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Which Russian tanks?  When?  Under what circumstances?

 

On 10/16/2021 at 11:07 AM, dbsapp said:

 

In the end it leads to some buggy consequences, like Russian tanks are blind beyond 2 km range in CMCW. 

 

OK, I just ran a test to see how blind Russian armor is just over 2km.

Hmmm,  4 destroyed american tanks in one minute, Now it is T64b1's  but this is why it gets old listening to these type of comments unless you are going to get some data as to what you are really seeing as being wrong.

There was spotting confirmed within the first 10 seconds of the battle.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by slysniper

[Redwolf]

Range is not involved in the spotting artifacts that some find odd.

When I curse the spotting it is usually at point black range. As in just fire the gun you can't miss. Or viewing "through" an unspotted unit that is between the spotter and another AVF that is spotted. That kind of thing.

There is no range related issue and that is easy to test.

[slysniper]

Ran at 2.5 Km and the same results , 4 US tanks destroyed in the first minute.

No spotting issue until some evidence with some real info is provided.

 

17 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

Range is not involved in the spotting artifacts that some find odd.

When I curse the spotting it is usually at point black range. As in just fire the gun you can't miss. Or viewing "through" an unspotted unit that is between the spotter and another AVF that is spotted. That kind of thing.

There is no range related issue and that is easy to test.

 

Tanks are actually much more blind as to things which are close, so again, its hard to say its always incorrect when the game does not spot a close danger.

But I agree, its the up close and personnal contacts that when they are not spotted, can drive one crazy. I have had my share of those that it makes no sence as to why the unit is not spotted.