Number of G41 in German infantry platoon

[Chibot Mk IX]

I noticed that with F&R update, the German infantry does have G41 now .

That's a great news. On the other hand the number of G41 seems to be too high in an infantry platoon. 

G43 is also in German infantry squad, but you will see more G41 than G43.   You can check the stock scenario / campaign, or deploy a formation in mission editor. There is some randomness,  on average, 4 G41  and 2 G43 in each platoon .

 

I won't call this as a bug, but considering this is late war period and the number of G41 built , this is a topic worth of discussion 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Just doing a really quick test, I found that in June 1944 there were about 3 each per platoon, but in May 1945, there were some G43s but no G41s.

As I said, one very quick test, so YMMV.

[Aragorn2002]

I didn't see any G41's, but I must admit I haven't looked for them either. I did see quite some G43's though.

[chuckdyke]

13 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

G41

It should be rare, not reliable enough was the reason it was superseded by the G43.

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

It should be rare, not reliable enough was the reason it was superseded by the G43.

It's wishful thinking of course, but I would love the have the option to choose the weapons for each platoon yourself.

[chuckdyke]

42 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

It's wishful thinking of course, but I would love the have the option to choose the weapons for each platoon yourself.

It seems in cold and dirty conditions the troopers preferred the old 98K. 

[zmoney]

I haven’t seen any of the stg 44’s either. Maybe just my luck

[Chibot Mk IX]

5 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I didn't see any G41's, but I must admit I haven't looked for them either. I did see quite some G43's though.

Here is a screenshot from CMRT's stock campaign "blunting the spear" , the PzG plt on the far left.

 

1 hour ago, zmoney said:

I haven’t seen any of the stg 44’s either. Maybe just my luck

Yes, I noticed that too. I have a feeling that in 44 OOB the stg 44 slot now belongs to G43, and pixeltruppen armed with G43 in pervious version are now equipped with G41 .

Also all the AFV crew's P08 changed to P38

[akd]

2 hours ago, zmoney said:

I haven’t seen any of the stg 44’s either. Maybe just my luck

Check Grenadier Battalion 44B starting in July 44.  If you mean in Panzergrenadier squads, MP44 were almost entirely absent from Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions until the fall of 1944.  First significant numbers in the Schnelle Truppen came with the Panzer Brigades raised at the end of the summer.

Edited April 29, 2021 by akd

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, akd said:

Check Grenadier Battalion 44B starting in July 44.  If you mean in Panzergrenadier squads, MP44 were almost entirely absent from Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions until the fall of 1944.  First significant numbers in the Schnelle Truppen came with the Panzer Brigades raised at the end of the summer.

Well, that's settled  then.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[akd]

17 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

I noticed that with F&R update, the German infantry does have G41 now .

That's a great news. On the other hand the number of G41 seems to be too high in an infantry platoon. 

G43 is also in German infantry squad, but you will see more G41 than G43.   You can check the stock scenario / campaign, or deploy a formation in mission editor. There is some randomness,  on average, 4 G41  and 2 G43 in each platoon .

 

I won't call this as a bug, but considering this is late war period and the number of G41 built , this is a topic worth of discussion 

G41s were still the most common self-loading rifle in summer 1944, but holdings were highly variable.  Just looking at the Panzer divisions over summer '44, I'd say self-loading rifle holdings were on average 200-300, some divisions with none or few, some with a lot more.  The game is setup so that the G43 should become more common progressing into the Fall and Winter.

Edited April 29, 2021 by akd

[Aragorn2002]

6 minutes ago, akd said:

G41s were still the most common self-loading rifle in summer 1944, but holdings were highly variable.  Just looking at the Panzer divisions over summer '44, I'd say self-loading rifle holdings were on average 200-300, some divisions with none or few, some with a lot more.  The game is setup so that the G43 should become more common progressing into the Fall and Winter.

Can you tell us some more about the numbers in the game for the StG44/MP44 for ordinary infantry divisions during Fall and Winter?

[akd]

2 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Can you tell us some more about the numbers in the game for the StG44/MP44 for ordinary infantry divisions during Fall and Winter?

Can you be more specific on what information you are looking for?

[Aragorn2002]

24 minutes ago, akd said:

Can you be more specific on what information you are looking for?

Yes. You mentioned that the game is set up so that the G43 should be more common progressing into Fall and Winter. I take it the same goes for the StG44. Can you describe how that works? Is that about percentages? What for example is the effect of that on the number of StG44 available in a normal infantry company in Fall compared to Winter?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I just know that I'm loving Panzer Brigade Panzer Grenadier battalions and Volksgrenadier battalions, because they are so chock full of MP44 goodness.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Vergeltungswaffe
typo

[akd]

2 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Yes. You mentioned that the game is set up so that the G43 should be more common progressing into Fall and Winter.

A few soldiers per squad have a %chance to have a semi-auto rifle (G41/G43) instead of a regular rifle. I'm not sure exactly how the probability works under the hood, but probably the %chance for G43 goes up while the %chance for G41 goes down.  I think the chance of semi-auto overall stays the same.  Equipment quality setting (if selected before you purchase the formation) may shift the percentages away from semi-autos to regular rifles, but if so in this case, the effect is pretty subtle.

2 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I take it the same goes for the StG44. Can you describe how that works? Is that about percentages? What for example is the effect of that on the number of StG44 available in a normal infantry company in Fall compared to Winter?

Doctrine and TO&Es called for concentration of MP44 into sub-units, so it doesn't work quite the same way.  The MP44 is now mostly concentrated into dedicated "sturm" sub-units within formations.  For "regular" infantry, you see this first with Grenadier Battalion 44B in July 1944 (should be available from start in June), which has an option to convert 1x platoon per company into a sturm platoon.  Soldiers assigned an MP44 on paper have a chance of getting the MP44 or a substitute.  With equipment quality set to "excellent" the chance is very high of getting the assigned MP44, thus close to paper organization.

[JoMac]

Thanks, akd, for the provided in-depth information...

[LukeFF]

17 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

It should be rare, not reliable enough was the reason it was superseded by the G43.

It was the Mauser G41 that was unreliable. The Walther G41 was as reliable as one could expect from a German self-loading rifle.

Edited April 30, 2021 by LukeFF

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

The Walther G41 was as reliable as one could expect from a self-loading rifle.

The troopers in the field didn't like self-loading rifles. I have met a few veterans, especially in wintertime.  

[MikeyD]

The G41 can be considered the German take on the Russian SVT-40. Its telling that Russian soldiers weren't particularly fond of their SVT-40s, either

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

The troopers in the field didn't like self-loading rifles. I have met a few veterans, especially in wintertime.  

And that tells us precisely nothing. 

3 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The G41 can be considered the German take on the Russian SVT-40. Its telling that Russian soldiers weren't particularly fond of their SVT-40s, either

The SVT-40 is an interesting case. It's an improvement on the original SVT-38 design, which had issues such as the magazine falling out(!). Then comes along the SVT-40, which was meant to become the main service rifle of the Red Army. In fact, Mosin-Nagant production was ramping down in favor of the SVT-40, but then the Germans invaded. With a massive number of new rifles needed to replace the losses of 1941, back came the Mosins.

Meanwhile, yes, the SVT-40 never did live up to its potential. Unless the gas valve is adjusted properly, misfires are a common problem - and it's not an easy weapon to maintain in the field. That, and it has issues with maintaining acceptable accuracy. 

I have a first-year production SVT-40 from Tula. It's a decent rifle to take to the range, but it is indeed a pain to clean, and I've never been able to group shots well with it.

[Aragorn2002]

8 hours ago, akd said:

A few soldiers per squad have a %chance to have a semi-auto rifle (G41/G43) instead of a regular rifle. I'm not sure exactly how the probability works under the hood, but probably the %chance for G43 goes up while the %chance for G41 goes down.  I think the chance of semi-auto overall stays the same.  Equipment quality setting (if selected before you purchase the formation) may shift the percentages away from semi-autos to regular rifles, but if so in this case, the effect is pretty subtle.

Doctrine and TO&Es called for concentration of MP44 into sub-units, so it doesn't work quite the same way.  The MP44 is now mostly concentrated into dedicated "sturm" sub-units within formations.  For "regular" infantry, you see this first with Grenadier Battalion 44B in July 1944 (should be available from start in June), which has an option to convert 1x platoon per company into a sturm platoon.  Soldiers assigned an MP44 on paper have a chance of getting the MP44 or a substitute.  With equipment quality set to "excellent" the chance is very high of getting the assigned MP44, thus close to paper organization.

Thanks for explaining that. As the big guy mentioned some days ago, we can consider ourselves lucky that the TOE is in your capable hands. 

[Aragorn2002]

19 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

And that tells us precisely nothing. 

The SVT-40 is an interesting case. It's an improvement on the original SVT-38 design, which had issues such as the magazine falling out(!). Then comes along the SVT-40, which was meant to become the main service rifle of the Red Army. In fact, Mosin-Nagant production was ramping down in favor of the SVT-40, but then the Germans invaded. With a massive number of new rifles needed to replace the losses of 1941, back came the Mosins.

Meanwhile, yes, the SVT-40 never did live up to its potential. Unless the gas valve is adjusted properly, misfires are a common problem - and it's not an easy weapon to maintain in the field. That, and it has issues with maintaining acceptable accuracy. 

I have a first-year production SVT-40 from Tula. It's a decent rifle to take to the range, but it is indeed a pain to clean, and I've never been able to group shots well with it.

It's a thrilling experience to fire ww2 guns. I had the opportunity to fire with the MP44 and some other German guns. Also the Lee Enfield. It adds an extra dimension compared to modern weapons.

[chuckdyke]

A 'Debt Repaid' Is the scenario where they use the MP44. Nowadays they will call it the MP$$. 

[akd]

7 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Thanks for explaining that. As the big guy mentioned some days ago, we can consider ourselves lucky that the TOE is in your capable hands. 

TO&E is in the most capable hands of @Battlefront.com and @ChrisND.  I just try to bring the best resources I can find to the table to improve where possible.

Edited April 30, 2021 by akd