tank crew should get back on...

[sPA505]

hi guys, quick question about the situation:

tank crew got out - get back in.

mission "shield and hammer", the tiger hit several of my shermans, but two remained functional. now i want to let the core crew of the 3rd sherman get into it. something strange happens: the crew members are shown as "in the tank", each crew member with the corresponding icon (e. g. loader) but the tank is still declared as "dismounted" and i can't get back in. g. loader) but the tank is still declared as "dismounted" and i can't assign any commands to it. there is a crew icon above the tank, furthermore the tank icon is visible. the pixel troops / crew are not visible outside the tank.

before i "succeeded" in doing what i just described, i had problems getting the crew into the tank. they sometimes only got onto the tank as tankriders. may this be because i didn't try it with the original crew / with the crew that originally belongs to the tank in question? i think i've read this before on the forum.

maybe i missed something, thanks for tips on the situation.

[chuckdyke]

there is a discussion going on and there is no consensus on the matter. 

[BornGinger]

chuckdyke forgot to link to the discussion. The other thread starts off by discussing gun crew and later on transforms into a discussion about tank crew and crew for vehicles in general.

You find it here.

[sPA505]

Many thanks for the info and the link to the thread!

[A Canadian Cat]

4 hours ago, sPA505 said:

i didn't try it with the original crew / with the crew that originally belongs to the tank in question?

I can definitively say that for Sherman tanks you can only remount the original crew.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

11 minutes ago, IanL said:

I can definitively say that for Sherman tanks you can only remount the original crew.

AFAIK this is the case for ALL tanks and other AFVs (ACs, APCs, IFVs) in ALL of the games.....This may not apply to all armoured transports such as Sd.Kfz.251s, TBH I haven't thoroughly explored those yet. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[mjkerner]

Unless something changed in v.4, the Sarge is correct regarding tanks and AFVs. (I did my own testing a couple of years ago, mainly because some Jeeps and HTs have drivers, some don’t, and it can get confusing who can remount and who can’t.) You can’t recrew ATGs and infantry guns either once you bail them.

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

This may not apply to all armoured transports such as Sd.Kfz.251s

As said elsewhere I have dismounted Sdkfz 251 drivers and gunners and successfully bunged them in other dismounted 251s.  Embarking passengers will also take on both the driver and gunner roles without the original crew being present.

I think the clue may be the 'dismount' (if available) instead of only the 'bail out' that you get for tank crews?

Edited February 4, 2021 by Vacilllator

[chuckdyke]

@mjkerner @Vacilllator this is the rule of thumb according @Sgt.Squarehead Bailed out vehicles or abandoned equipment can't be manned by a different crew. Bailed out vehicles can be manned by the original crew only. If the crew can dismount their vehicle can be operated by a different crew. It doesn't apply always, kudos to the people who take their time testing these things. At least I understand why friendly infantry can't mount the engine deck to operate a 0.50 Cal while his squad struggles with fire superiority. 

[Vacillator]

6 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

@Vacilllator this is the rule of thumb according @Sgt.Squarehead 

Yes, and I was of course discussing it with @Sgt.Squarehead . 

I think overall we're all in general agreement, and at the same time accept that some odd happenings occur every now and then (like for example only one of my two Panther crews being able to re-mount their original tanks).

On your 50 cal point, in RL did infantry jump up on a tank and do that?  Probably not as a rule, but I'm sure it happened.

[chuckdyke]

33 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

Yes, and I was of course discussing it with @Sgt.Squarehead . 

I think overall we're all in general agreement, and at the same time accept that some odd happenings occur every now and then (like for example only one of my two Panther crews being able to re-mount their original tanks).

On your 50 cal point, in RL did infantry jump up on a tank and do that?  Probably not as a rule, but I'm sure it happened.

Yes, it happened all right. It may be in the US constitution. The right of every vehicle to carry a 0.50 Call Browning shall not be infringed with. I am sure I heard something like that. All joking apart nobody likes to waste a .50 Browning HMG. 

[BornGinger]

16 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Embarking passengers will also take on both the driver and gunner roles without the original crew being present.

 

I wish this was true for lorries too. If a soldier can embark and drive a halftrack, why shouldn't he be able to embark and drive a lorry?

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, BornGinger said:

I wish this was true for lorries too. If a soldier can embark and drive a halftrack, why shouldn't he be able to embark and drive a lorry?

I checked it in Devon basic training. It is probably because the driver can't disembark, he can only bail out. 

[BornGinger]

You're probably correct chuckie. But with my post I meant to say "why is the game made that way that infantry can embark a halftrack and drive it to the closest beerhut but they can't borrow a lorry to do the same? If they can drive a halftrack they should be able to drive a lorry".

Edited February 5, 2021 by BornGinger

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Trucks are a particularly perplexing case and that's a fact.

[A Canadian Cat]

6 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

On your 50 cal point, in RL did infantry jump up on a tank and do that?  Probably not as a rule, but I'm sure it happened.

Exactly. If we could how often do you think we game players would? Yeah, you're right, all the time. Steve doesn't like to give us tools we can abuse too much. OK, its more like he doesn't like doing work and therefore diverting resources towards something that is just going to be abused.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Trucks are a particularly perplexing case and that's a fact.

WW 2 Europe 3 people in the village had a car. Doctor, Mayor, and the Business owner. Cars were manual with a double clutch and the Deuce and a Half 5 Gear X 2. It must have been one big advantage for the US army the motor car was far more common in the US. I can understand that not everybody can jump on a Studebaker. 0.50 like all MG's you need to be trained for it. Some tactics you can't do in CM like indirect fire, but for pointbank yes sure everybody should be able to operate it. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, IanL said:

Yeah, you're right, all the time. Steve doesn't like to give us tools we can abuse too much. OK, its more like he doesn't like doing work and therefore diverting resources towards something that is just going to be abused.

I think greater flexibility in the editor might be the answer.....To abuse that would take some actual effort!

 

[Combatintman]

People will only whine when the untrained driver crashes the wagon ... @IanLis right - this is something that isn't worth the headache.

[Vacillator]

Agreed. 

On the subject of infantry using a tank's 50 cal, unless an Audie Murphy / John Wayne / Telly Savalas / 'insert other name here' type turns up it's probably best that it's not allowed.

[Lethaface]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:30 PM, Combatintman said:

People will only whine when the untrained driver crashes the wagon ... @IanLis right - this is something that isn't worth the headache.

Or ruins the gearbox and clutch, immobilizing the vehicle 

What is strange though is if/whether anyone can operate a halftrack but not an Opel Blitz (I haven't tested it and not really a big concern imo, but it would be strange). 

[chuckdyke]

39 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Or ruins the gearbox and clutch, immobilizing the vehicle 

What is strange though is if/whether anyone can operate a halftrack but not an Opel Blitz (I haven't tested it and not really a big concern imo, but it would be strange). 

I checked it in FB and Battle for Normandy. The driver can get out an Opel Blitz by bailing out, but the driver of the halftrack can dismount. It makes sense that the Panzer grenadiers were taught to operate their equipment. Truck drivers had probably civilian experience before enlisting. It is a Combat Mission thing dismount anyone can replace the driver. Bail out only the driver can operate the vehicle. 

[A Canadian Cat]

4 hours ago, Lethaface said:

What is strange though is if/whether anyone can operate a halftrack but not an Opel Blitz (I haven't tested it and not really a big concern imo, but it would be strange). 

Probably. There are some funny things though that can happen. Note I'm not say the game is modelling this but its a funny story on myself. I drove a truck for the Canadian Forces Reserve for a summer. I did basic training and then driver school. On the big summer exercise I got my first solo mission: I was assigned a truck, a pickup point for artillery ammo and a battery to go resupply. Excited and nervous I jump in the truck and start it up but it will not drive. I'm nervous so I calm my self down and make sure I'm not missing anything. Honestly there is not much to it there are no keys just a little red start button. All you have to do is have the automatic transmission in park and foot on the break just like a car. Nope nothing. The engine starts but switching it into drive does nothing. Finally I hop down and go report the vehicle problem. I am met with bank stares - don't you know the trick to prevent civilians from driving off in any truck? Ahh no. Someone, not so kindly - lots of teasing, shows me this extra set of controls deep under the dash that controls the driving gears (I believe it was for dealing with being stuck so you can control which wheels get power manually). Turns out it is common practice to disengage the drive mechanism so any Tom, Dick or Harry could not steal the truck. But that's not in the training manual - oops.

[Lethaface]

2 hours ago, IanL said:

Probably. There are some funny things though that can happen. Note I'm not say the game is modelling this but its a funny story on myself. I drove a truck for the Canadian Forces Reserve for a summer. I did basic training and then driver school. On the big summer exercise I got my first solo mission: I was assigned a truck, a pickup point for artillery ammo and a battery to go resupply. Excited and nervous I jump in the truck and start it up but it will not drive. I'm nervous so I calm my self down and make sure I'm not missing anything. Honestly there is not much to it there are no keys just a little red start button. All you have to do is have the automatic transmission in park and foot on the break just like a car. Nope nothing. The engine starts but switching it into drive does nothing. Finally I hop down and go report the vehicle problem. I am met with bank stares - don't you know the trick to prevent civilians from driving off in any truck? Ahh no. Someone, not so kindly - lots of teasing, shows me this extra set of controls deep under the dash that controls the driving gears (I believe it was for dealing with being stuck so you can control which wheels get power manually). Turns out it is common practice to disengage the drive mechanism so any Tom, Dick or Harry could not steal the truck. But that's not in the training manual - oops.

Lol, I bet you wasn't the only victim of their practical joke

Enough people nowadays have issues driving a stick shift, let alone low gearing / special setups for trucks/terrain vehicles etc. Although I'd expect at least decently trained soldiers to be able to operate (basics) of their regular transport/lorry vehicles. 

[A Canadian Cat]

42 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Enough people nowadays have issues driving a stick shift, let alone low gearing / special setups for trucks/terrain vehicles etc. Although I'd expect at least decently trained soldiers

You would think

I'm sure you are mostly correct a truck is a truck is a truck - as long as you know where to put the leavers you should be able to drive it at least a little bit. Backing up with a trailer - that takes some learning / practice.