Community Campaign Created by Multiple Contributors, Historical or Hypothetical

[Probus]

Has anyone tried getting together several contributors to create MEGA campaigns for the CM games?  I was thinking that if we pooled our community resources we could come up with a campaign(s) that would be just awesome and well play tested.

What got me thinking about it was this idea of a "Defense of Europe" DLC (see below).  The community could create a Discord channel and/or thread to decide on which CM game **cough**SF2 (since Steam release)**cough**, Historical or Hypothetical, and come up with the theme for the campaign.  I would like to see a Hypothetical Blue on Blue or Red on Red Campaign of some sort, but the sky's the limit.

Anyway, here is the DLC idea that got me thinking about it:

https://community.battlefront.com/topic/137669-headline-july-4th-1944-hitler-assassinated-third-reich-surrenders-to-the-west-hypothetical/

Even if it was relatively easy for battlefront to merge TO&E and Maps, they would still have a big job creating scenarios and campaigns.  If the community could help with a closed beta release (what we called Experimentals), the community could by instrumental and have a lot of input into creating the first campaign and scenarios.  Battlefront could then release the DLC to the public much quicker and the community would have deeply influenced the release.  Win-Win for everyone.

I used to belong to the Experimental testing group for KSP and I loved every minute of it and like to feel I helped make the game just a little bit better.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I played in several CMMC's (Combat Mission Mega Campaigns) back in the day.  CMBB and CMAK.  Quite a few players and a team of umpires made it the most fun ever.

The limiting factor is having enough people to umpire/gamemaster it all.

Trying to involve BFC will be a non-starter imho, they won't have the time to deal with it in any way.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Vergeltungswaffe

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

I played in several CMMC's (Combat Mission Mega Campaigns) back in the day.  CMBB and CMAK.  Quite a few players and a team of umpires made it the most fun ever.

The limiting factor is having enough people to umpire/gamemaster it all.

Trying to involve BFC will be a non-starter imho, they won't have the time to deal with it in any way.

Didn't you organize the Lauban campaign? Man, that was impressive. Would love to see that in Fire and Rubble.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[Probus]

2 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

I played in several CMMC's (Combat Mission Mega Campaigns) back in the day.  CMBB and CMAK.  Quite a few players and a team of umpires made it the most fun ever.

The limiting factor is having enough people to umpire/gamemaster it all.

Sorry, I meant using the scenario editor to make a campaign that is designed by the community.  That sounds like a tournament.  We need one of those too!!!

2 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

Trying to involve BFC will be a non-starter imho, they won't have the time to deal with it in any way.

I can only agree with you on this.  They have their hands full already.  I was trying to think of DLC that battlefront could do that would get the most bang for the buck.

[mjkerner]

Probus, The Few Good Men and ___________ (forgot the other site--the one IanL posts the Battle of the Month to) both usually have tournies going fairly regularly. 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

6 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Didn't you organize the Lauban campaign? Man, that was impressive. Would love to see that in Fire and Rubble.

I wasn't the organizer, I commanded the 17th Pz Div..

Kicked a ton of commie butt too.  It was epic.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

6 hours ago, Probus said:

Sorry, I meant using the scenario editor to make a campaign that is designed by the community.  That sounds like a tournament.  We need one of those too!!!

I can only agree with you on this.  They have their hands full already.  I was trying to think of DLC that battlefront could do that would get the most bang for the buck.

It wasn't a tournament, it was a continuous campaign of battles that were played out based on the strategic movement of units on the map. Absolutely glorious.

I understand about DLC, but I just don't think they would get involved for that either, based on past comments.

[Artkin]

^^^^ this is exactly what ive been wanting. I even laid out a few divisions from a toe pdf. Gets boring playing alone though. 

[Aragorn2002]

4 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

I wasn't the organizer, I commanded the 17th Pz Div..

Kicked a ton of commie butt too.  It was epic.

It really was. I didn't take part in it, but followed it and did get all the maps of the Lauban area, which were absolutely stunning. Played on them for months and months. I must admit I never had so much fun (anymore) as playing CMBB. At first I hated the looks of it, but soon enough I realized it was most enjoyable game I would ever play.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[Probus]

11 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

It wasn't a tournament, it was a continuous campaign of battles that were played out based on the strategic movement of units on the map. Absolutely glorious.

I understand about DLC, but I just don't think they would get involved for that either, based on past comments.

Wow! That does sound awesome,  Really awesome.  In fact, I would be willing to organize and coordinate something like that.  I would need at least an experienced player(s) to help me.  I've been wargaming since the mid 70's but I am only a few months old to the Combat Mission 2 system.

I would need some more information on how it was set up.  I could grab a boxed wargame like PanzerBlitz/PanzerLeader/NATO/Gulf Strike to track the strategic/operational map.  It would really depend on how many players and what era.

Is there a link to the old mega campaign so I could use some lessons learned?

Did each side have a general(s) to make the strategic/operational decisions each turn?

Shock Force 2 might be a good candidate since it just hit Steam.  I would really like to use Black Sea but I also have Fortress Italy and Red Thunder.

[Artkin]

I'm all in. I would prefer titles that can handle the larger battles though. (FB, BS)... Honestly doing this on a WW2 title would make a lot more sense, would have more diversity and probably be much more enjoyable. But I've always wanted to do cmbs too. 

[Aragorn2002]

Perhaps the Lauban campaign from CMBB can be resurrected for Fire and Rubble. 

One of the last German victories in the East (Silesia, eastern Germany, now Poland) and a great subject for a campaign.

[A Canadian Cat]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:21 PM, mjkerner said:

and ___________ (forgot the other site

LOL theBlitz.org

[A Canadian Cat]

19 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

It wasn't a tournament, it was a continuous campaign of battles that were played out based on the strategic movement of units on the map. Absolutely glorious.

I understand about DLC, but I just don't think they would get involved for that either, based on past comments.

That kind of thing happens fairly regularly over at The Few Good Men.

There have been several pretty successful campaigns and there are some well thought out and workable rules and people with experience. I would recommend heading over there and joining the next one that comes up. After that get involved in creating the next one.

See ya over there.

[A Canadian Cat]

Link: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/

[Probus]

5 hours ago, IanL said:

Link: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/

Ah cool!  I already have accounts on both.  I'll go hunting.

[Probus]

13 hours ago, IanL said:

Link: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/

You don't happen to have direct links to the mega campaigns?

[A Canadian Cat]

3 hours ago, Probus said:

You don't happen to have direct links to the mega campaigns?

Here are the two that either just finished or are under discussion. The others have fallen down in the list but they are there some where:

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/forums/cmsf2-operation-five-lions.406/

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/forums/the-brigade-battles-campaign-cmrt.465/

[mjkerner]

17 hours ago, IanL said:

LOL theBlitz.org

Hey, you shouldn't laugh at early onset Can't Remember Shyte! Actually, it's not early "onset".  It's full blown "set"!

[A Canadian Cat]

50 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

Hey, you shouldn't laugh at early onset Can't Remember Shyte! Actually, it's not early "onset".  It's full blown "set"!

Oh man sorry dude. I will not laugh again. Out load anyway

[Ithikial_AU]

13 hours ago, IanL said:

Here are the two that either just finished or are under discussion. The others have fallen down in the list but they are there some where:

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/forums/cmsf2-operation-five-lions.406/

Five Lions was a CMSF2 narrative campaign that actually went through to completion and had a Syrian campaign victory. CMSF2 and to a lesser extent CMBS are lopsided in favour of blue force so the trick I used here was to have varying and secret campaign objectives for both sides. You'll have a more balanced approach if you go with the WW2 titles I'd imagine.

As for a mass community event, all I'll say is good luck. Part of the reason this went through to completion was the small number of players (4 per side) including one overall commander. Plus there was a fixed end point to the campaign so a limited number of campaign turns that everyone knew they were working towards. For a mass community event setting up a system where players just need to play a battle and report the outcome by a certain date is a lot safer, and all the umpire needs to do is record results as they come in. Trying to have a true campaign with operational level movements with dozens of players on each side will boil down to a lot of forum posts, not a lot of agreement and growing apathy as it goes on or runs into inevitable delays as players wait for others to finish battles.

Sorry to be blunt, just seen many of these campaigns fizzle out before. Know what you are trying to do up front and have everything prepped. Going big may sound and look great but also bloats the workload on one or handful of people.

[Probus]

9 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Five Lions was a CMSF2 narrative campaign that actually went through to completion and had a Syrian campaign victory. CMSF2 and to a lesser extent CMBS are lopsided in favour of blue force so the trick I used here was to have varying and secret campaign objectives for both sides. You'll have a more balanced approach if you go with the WW2 titles I'd imagine.

As for a mass community event, all I'll say is good luck. Part of the reason this went through to completion was the small number of players (4 per side) including one overall commander. Plus there was a fixed end point to the campaign so a limited number of campaign turns that everyone knew they were working towards. For a mass community event setting up a system where players just need to play a battle and report the outcome by a certain date is a lot safer, and all the umpire needs to do is record results as they come in. Trying to have a true campaign with operational level movements with dozens of players on each side will boil down to a lot of forum posts, not a lot of agreement and growing apathy as it goes on or runs into inevitable delays as players wait for others to finish battles.

Sorry to be blunt, just seen many of these campaigns fizzle out before. Know what you are trying to do up front and have everything prepped. Going big may sound and look great but also bloats the workload on one or handful of people.

I agree. In fact I am going to play in one first to see how it's done before I try anything at all. It does sound like a fun game. 8-10 people should be more than enough. 

[Erwin]

Have to echo Ithikial's points.  We tried this in CM1 days at WeBOB.  The problem is that there is always at least one player who can't keep up the pace/momentum and everyone else has to wait impatiently.  Then a 2nd person has a problem.  The more folks you involve in a project like this when there is no way to compel "work" being done, the complexities and frustrations also increase exponentially.

So, good luck at trying it.  Maybe you will find a way to make it work.  Just be aware of the pitfalls and that generally, folks cannot be relied on as gaming is a low priority.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Erwin

[Probus]

Just now, Erwin said:

Have to echo Ithikial's points.  We tried this in CM1 days at WeBOB.  The problem is that there is always at least one player who can't keep up the pace/momentum and everyone else has to wait impatiently.  Then a 2nd person has a problem.  The more folks you involve in a project like this when there is no way to compel "work" being done, the complexities and frustrations also increase exponentially.

So, good luck at trying it.  Maybe you will find a way to make it work.  Just be aware of the pitfalls and that generally, folks cannot be relied on as gaming is a low priority.

Yes. I think that should/would be clear in the rules. 

In RL I used to be a Project Leader. Now I'm a Program Manager and I couldn't agree with you more.  

[Artkin]

Nah just have someone take over for them after 2 days or something. Have this understood in the first place. Thats it. No problem. It will be worked out. I have my own set of rules that I would love to share once I start writing stuff down!