The whys and wherefores of declining US officer quality

[John Kettler]

This is a hair-raising read by a former Green Beret weapon specialist, among other things. What I found particularly harrowing is the percentage which can't meet the USMC WW II criteria for officer selection. WW II! The comments are most interesting, too, perhaps more than the article.

http://weaponsman.com/?p=33034

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited September 19, 2018 by John Kettler

[Badger73]

Shouldn't this thread be in the other non-game "General Discussion Forum"? http://community.battlefront.com/forum/57-general-discussion-forum/

[Erwin]

The USAF had a similar article by a Colonel awhile back re Air Force officer deficiencies.

[DerKommissar]

If I had a nickle for every time I heard a retired officer complain about the various perceived deficiencies (physical, mental, moral) of the younger generation, I would have enough money to feed and clothe the entire PLA. I seriously doubt this is an issue that's exclusive to the past 40 years. Is it possible that the test is obsolete? I'd be interested in seeing more data than the correlation here. 

This being said, there are some silly programs in Uni, these days (no doubt somebody is getting a nickle for newer programs being called silly).

Edited September 20, 2018 by DerKommissar

[markus544]

Our we talking about WW2 or today...I watched a you tube show about West Point cadets and their training and I saw people who scared me as being leaders...In combat I presume which I found to be rather disturbing..

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

If I had a nickle for every time I heard a retired officer complain about the various perceived deficiencies (physical, mental, moral) of the younger generation...

This is the article referred to:  https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/

[DerKommissar]

16 minutes ago, Erwin said:

This is the article referred to:  https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/

Ah, I see. That's the issue with the government sector, though. It's not exclusively as a US or AF problem. Nepotism is hardly anything new. I guess it's good that people are talking about it.

[MikeyD]

There was an article out of Europe a short while ago tracing a measurable drop in IQ in recent years. The data, I think, comes from a country with a universal draft so every adult male takes an IQ test on entering the service.

We're all probably affected. I recall taking a holiday after college in England back in 1980. I was attempting to wade through Thucydides 'History of the Peloponnesian War' while on a train to Bovington when an elderly gentleman across from me struck up a conversation. "I say, I remember reading that book back when I was a schoolboy. My little school chums had a saying - "Herodotus reported rumors, Thucycdides reports facts" and he gave a jolly laugh. I stared back at him. Schoolboy? School chums? Heck, he probably read it in the original Greek at age 13!

[John Kettler]

Article wasn't by a retired officer, but an NCO. As such, I think it offers a perspective not typically seen in such pieces. Believe it's relevant and not just generally because it can be used to inform decisions about leader quality selection when playing CM. If today's officers can't meet the selection criteria, which should be obtainable, for WW II Marine officers, then I think we have a problem.

Part of this is attention span, and cognitive specialists refer to the children who grew up watching MTV as "the generation of broken brains."Go watch commercials from the 1950s on YT, and you'll see exactly what I mean. These days, because attention spans are so short, viewers would fall asleep. Super short commercials used to be the stuff of SF, such as the blipverts in "Blade Runner." When I was a boy, we had several recesses and PE (many schools now don't have PE), so spent a lot fo time outdoors, likewise when at home. TV was something we saw little of, and play was usually outside, too. We hardly ever had fast food, and soda was once in a great while. All that sugar in those giant drinks affects the brain, and diet drinks are worse, because they contain known neurotoxic sweeteners. A friend of mine suffered major cognitive disruption which stopped after he quit drinking them.  

Here's the reality. The percentage of prospective recruits who can meet the physical standards has dropped dramatically, in large measure because of so many being couch potatoes, electronics addicts, living on junk food and more. Nor is this a US only problem. I've read Russia couldn't begin to field the great armies of the GPW, because so many of their recruits vegetate, live in their phones, are obsessed with music videos and more. Believe the rejection rate there is ~80%. If that isn't militarily relevant I don't know what is. How is the US Army having to write military manuals at a 6th grade level not important? We do that and have since the 80s. In 1879, though, the 6th graders were operating at an intellectual level at least on par with sophomores in my high school class! 

McGuffey's Sixth Eclectic Reader

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16751/16751-pdf.pdf

All the whiz bang tech notwithstanding, the ability to take in, assess, logically consider and effectively and timely act on a bewildering array of information, let alone while sleep deprived and under fire, is absolutely vital to force effectiveness and troop survival. Poor leaders get people killed, and now it can happen in an instant. If our officer corps is indeed getting dumber, then we have a military problem of considerable magnitude and maybe need to consider leader mental sharpness as a factor in CM as it evolves. Look at the studies that have been done on various famous commanders by military historians and others who dissected their command styles, communications, willingness to take risks, decisiveness and more as cases in point. Indeed, such assessments have been the basis for who knows how many wargames, even if reduced to a single digit leader rating. 
 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Dynaman216]

The old "Things have gone to hell since I was a boy" thread.

[A Canadian Cat]

Which apparently have been going on generation to generation for all time with documented examples back to the anchient Greeks.

[nik mond]

Leadership quality suffers as the intake becomes more homogeneous. Based on a couple anecdotal comments I've come across over the years that stuck with me. One was a 3 tour senior sergeant (marines I believe) from Vietnam, He said his worst experience was in his first tour when the officers were trying to be John Wayne, and the majority of his fellow troops were volunteers trying to be Audie Murphy. By his third tour he was senior NCO for a company comprised of "hippies" as he put it. Smarter officers and best damn troops he served with. 

The old generation is always doubtful of the new leaders. As long as the new candidates are stripped of their sense of entitlement they can be just as capable. Even better. Another thing is to keep the intake socially diverse, this is important. 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

Which apparently have been going on generation to generation for all time with documented examples back to the anchient Greeks.

Yeah, but this time it's real!  Just you wait and see.

[MikeyD]

Socrates was against writing, said it dulled the brain, made people less capable of remembering things. Sigh, kids these days just can't memorize the Iliad like they used to. Romans were against reading silently (as opposed to orating), said it promoted seditious interior thoughts. Now everyone's against the internet (what we're on now), claiming people lose the faculty for 'deep reading' of dense material. I have my own gripe with calculators. They've made my brain flabby. Why bother adding and subtracting in my head when a machine will do it for me? Calculators turned me into a mental couch-potato.

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL I'm sure.

In the meantime"get off my lawn"

Edited September 22, 2018 by IanL

[Erwin]

I enjoy working with salesmen (insurance, car etc) and can do the calculations in my head faster than they can on calculators.  They then look at me with fear in their eyes as one does when one meets a witch or demon...   

[Dynaman216]

> Socrates was against writing, said it dulled the brain, made people less capable of remembering things.

I think that was proven to be true.  The flip side is that society can remember much more accurately (and much longer) with writing then without - and so can a person who is able to read their old notes.  

[LongLeftFlank]

Great topic! even if not strictly CM.

I once had a memorable conversation with a French African academic. He eloquently poured scorn on the intellectual sloppiness of le Anglosphere, especially our lamentable tendency to compose thoughts, and still worse, to edit them! on the keyboard. (I could only admit guilty as charged).

 

In contrast, he went on,  the French pedagogical method demands that you compose and arrange your ideas in your mind and only then commit words to paper, or open your mouth. I have Russian friends who say much the same thing.

The lengthy piece below treats, lovingly,  of that same topic, but is really about how thought process itself varies widely with culture and language. (No doubt there are also Taiwanese scholars lamenting the desecration of court Mandarin in the uncouth mouths of the dominant mainlanders).

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-useless-french-language-and-why-we-learn-it/

“I think the Mauritanian folktale is pretty sexist,” Collins says in French when called on by her teacher to respond. Challenged by her non-American classmates, she can defend herself only with variations on the same statement. “That was very American of you,” an Italian classmate tells her afterward.... 

[Europeans] took a few minutes to compose their thoughts, rather than walking around, undone, in the affective equivalent of pajamas.... the English of an educated, coastal-dwelling white American — sounded like exaggeration. I might have been speaking in all caps.... 'Great', 'awesome', and even 'perfect' now carry no particular connotation.... 

[Anglophones] think of their language as “open,” “flexible,” and “accommodating.” 

The French story is exactly the opposite. In French minds, their language is a particularly complex and nuanced tongue with no gray zones and little, if any, à peu près (approximation). Words are right or words are wrong. Every word has a precise meaning distinguishing it from other words. 

The French get the message very early, then consistently throughout their lives, that they are expected to exhibit a certain eloquence in their interactions with others. 

Unlike the other European languages that lost ground to English, “French had once been the common tongue of the Enlightenment” and “remained the standard idiom of diplomacy in the 19th century.

English, somehow, is everyone’s property....the more extensive English’s spread around the world and across cultures, and thus the more total its disconnection from any culture in particular, the less impressive its standard of use. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by LongLeftFlank

[Erwin]

Fun article.  Thanks...

"What was that Charles V said about the many languages he spoke? "I speak Spanish to God, French to men, Italian to women, and German to my horse?"

[LongLeftFlank]

I often marvel at what the poor CM community members whose first language is (fortunately) not English have to put up with in the mishmash of US and CW idioms used here.

[Erwin]

French is a wonderful language, and I have never understood the criticisms directed at France (from esp USA).  Have never experienced anything bad in France.  But, maybe am not sensitive enuff to be aware of their subtle insults???  Perhaps some Frenchies here can speak up and address what they really think of us?

Also liked many of the observations and comments:

(English speakers) '...think of their language as “open,” “flexible,” and “accommodating.” The French story is exactly the opposite. In French minds, their language is a particularly complex and nuanced tongue with no gray zones and little, if any, à peu près (approximation). Words are right or words are wrong. Every word has a precise meaning distinguishing it from other words."

"“French is a secret garden,” Collins writes, “but English, somehow, is everyone’s property. While I was gone, strangers have moved into my childhood home, ripped down the curtains, and put their feet up on the couch.”

"...during her time in Geneva, runs across a bizarre Euro-English restaurant signage (“IN HAMBURGER WE TRUST. BECAUSE WE LIKE IT. WHEN IT’S HURT HARD”)..."

"I read, on the French state department’s website, a warning to travelers to the United States: ‘It is recommended to adopt a reserved attitude toward members of the opposite sex. Some comments, attitudes, or jokes, anodyne in Latin countries, can lead to prosecution.’”

 

 

[DerKommissar]

On 9/22/2018 at 8:42 PM, LongLeftFlank said:

“I think the Mauritanian folktale is pretty sexist,” Collins says in French when called on by her teacher to respond. Challenged by her non-American classmates, she can defend herself only with variations on the same statement. “That was very American of you,” an Italian classmate tells her afterward.... 

[Europeans] took a few minutes to compose their thoughts, rather than walking around, undone, in the affective equivalent of pajamas.... the English of an educated, coastal-dwelling white American — sounded like exaggeration. I might have been speaking in all caps.... 'Great', 'awesome', and even 'perfect' now carry no particular connotation.... 

[Anglophones] think of their language as “open,” “flexible,” and “accommodating.” 

The French story is exactly the opposite. In French minds, their language is a particularly complex and nuanced tongue with no gray zones and little, if any, à peu près (approximation). Words are right or words are wrong. Every word has a precise meaning distinguishing it from other words. 

The French get the message very early, then consistently throughout their lives, that they are expected to exhibit a certain eloquence in their interactions with others. 

Unlike the other European languages that lost ground to English, “French had once been the common tongue of the Enlightenment” and “remained the standard idiom of diplomacy in the 19th century.

English, somehow, is everyone’s property....the more extensive English’s spread around the world and across cultures, and thus the more total its disconnection from any culture in particular, the less impressive its standard of use. 

Yeah, and it's not only exclusive to language, either. Every time a French francophone (xD) visits Quebec and complains about the dialect of the Quebecois. They complain that the Quebecois's use of both, outdated phrases along with Canadian English slang, is disorienting. It's crazy how languages and dialects effect/reflect the people that use them.

On 9/23/2018 at 3:35 AM, LongLeftFlank said:

I often marvel at what the poor CM community members whose first language is (fortunately) not English have to put up with in the mishmash of US and CW idioms used here.

I think we all make it infinitely worse by using as many initialisms, contractions and acronyms as we use. Something like:

"Those PPS-43s would be good in MOUT. The SAF UNCONs should get them in CM:SF 2. TL;DR." 

Even when talking to someone over discord, while playing a game:

"I got no LOS on that BMP, but I know OPFOR's on LZ and it's lit AF."

Even if you're an English speaker, you sometimes require a datasheet to figure out all these technical terms.