Redmarkus Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I'm playing the demo and loving it. Really great work. Just one minor observation so far. I seem to be suffering much higher tank crew losses to small arms fire when buttoned up than I'm used to. Has this been adjusted and, if so, how realistic is it? My Stug crews in the third scenario offered suffered a number of such casualties, not only commanders but gunners too. One Stug lost two crewmen in this fashion; with two crewmen remaining, it was able to move but not fire... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Are you sure its just small arms fire because I have never lost a StuG crewmen to that while the vehicle was buttoned. Are you sure the loader or commander wasn't unbuttoned? What was the hit text displaying when this happened? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 ^^^ This. Please try to make a savegame when this happens. If there's an issue, a savegame is the only way to share exactly what you're seeing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 This has happened a lot to me, too. I think what's happening is that the loader is popping up to use his MG (even when buttoned). And then after he is killed, another crewman does the same. And he will also be killed. I've attached two saved games - note that I just started from a save and drove a StuG near enemy infantry because I was pretty sure they crew would be shot up, which happened. Here's a link to a saved game: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7259929/Battle%20for%20Chaumont%20-%20Second%20Round%20004.bts Note that the StuG began buttoned, the loader unbuttoned, was killed, closed the loader hatch...then another crewman opened it and was also killed. Here's another one - the StuG was unbuttoned when I started moving it, although by the beginning of this turn, the loader had unbuttoned: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7259929/Battle%20for%20Chaumont%20-%20Second%20Round%20002.bts This also seemed to happen with the Jagd IVs, although I didn't run new saves on them. The action is near Chaumont center. I'm on a Mac, if that matters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) Cool. Thanks for posting them. I'll look at them in a bit. Ken Edit: hmmm....the Mac thing may throw a spanner in the works... Edited April 2, 2016 by c3k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Redmarkus said: I'm playing the demo and loving it. Really great work. Just one minor observation so far. I seem to be suffering much higher tank crew losses to small arms fire when buttoned up than I'm used to. Has this been adjusted and, if so, how realistic is it? My Stug crews in the third scenario offered suffered a number of such casualties, not only commanders but gunners too. One Stug lost two crewmen in this fashion; with two crewmen remaining, it was able to move but not fire... Are you sure it's not a.50 gunner (half-track)pecking away at you somewhere, that could gun could cause some problems! Edited April 2, 2016 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerminatorX Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Played the mission in question today too, seems to be an issue on PC as well. Buttoned stug crew will man the outer MG regardless of buttoning orders. It's not such a big deal when enemies are to the front and far away since the gun shield is so large, but if an allied rifleman gets behind the vehicle it can turn into a dead crew member very quickly. I guess its a design flaw with the vehicle that in order to use the machine gun a crew member needs to leave the protection an AFV should afford him. Maybe the AI could be tweaked so that the machine gunner was more conservative with exposing himself, or only used the weapon when unbutton orders are given (like a halftrack, or the 50 on a sherman) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Yeah, it does seem like the gunner should stay buttoned up when there is a button-up order. And that if he doesn't and does get killed, other crew shouldn't then man his gun and expose themselves, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Yeah but guys we are not talking about stand off ranges you are talking about enemy infantry at the sides and rear. That's separate stuff. The crew are desperately trying to fend off the existential threat and survive the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I agree that its really annoying to see the loader pop out and get killed over and over again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) I'm lost but what about the tanker shoot and dunk back in turret with mp40 or pistol if enemy troops are at the sides? Or a tank crew able to toss grenades out hatch. The panthers and tigers had small HE/smoke mortars that they could fire if troops were too close. Edited April 3, 2016 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 38 minutes ago, user1000 said: The panthers and tigers had small HE/smoke mortars that they could fire if troops were too close. The Nahverteidigungswaffe close defense system is modeled in game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edon Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Just tried the demo scenario. I find the stug behaviour frustrating too. I lined up stugs 300m from the town and ordered them to button down. A little later instead of safely engaging solely with main gun, loaders pop up with mg and get greeted by a hail of bullets (and casulties). I quit the scenario. I believe this suicide stug thing was introduced with 3.0. engine. Before that they obeyed button orders better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarre Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 well i dont get any this gind problem when you make sure that enemy infantry is front of stug . then its all moust imposible to harm mg shooter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, IanL said: Yeah but guys we are not talking about stand off ranges you are talking about enemy infantry at the sides and rear. That's separate stuff. The crew are desperately trying to fend off the existential threat and survive the war. Yeah, you do mean, NOT SURVIVE the War...Right. And, why is it that many other Armored Units with top Mounted MG's don't Unbutton when Inf are at their sides...You know, After all, they should fear for their lives too, and NOT SURVIVE the War. Edited April 3, 2016 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Because if they don't beat those enemy soldiers back they will disable their vehicle and that will be their end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarkus Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 I'm sorry - forgot about the save game requirement, but I see that others are having the same problem/challenge. In my case, the Stugs were not in the town proper but about 100m from it. They were facing the enemy, as far as I could tell, unless there were hidden AI infantry on a flank. The two main concerns, as cited above, are: 1. Stugs ignoring the button command. For close defence, let the player decide whether to unbutton or not. 2. Other crew members committing suicide after the machine gunner has already been killed with his head out of the hatch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarkus Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 18 hours ago, c3k said: Cool. Thanks for posting them. I'll look at them in a bit. Ken Edit: hmmm....the Mac thing may throw a spanner in the works... The devs must have Macs for testing issues, surely, since they've released a Mac version...??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 ^^^ Absolutely. It's just that _I_ do not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus544 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I must say I find it frustrating to open the commander hatch to support advancing infantry with machine gun fire and within a matter of seconds “Blam” your guy gets smoked. This situation is common in these games and in real life, and there is no doubt being unbuttoned and exposing one’s self to small arms fire is a dangerous business. I just feel it seems a little bit too much. Open hatch…fire a burst or two.. get nailed. I know the Germans were good, but consistently so…. This comment is somewhat more tongue in cheek than anything else but just once I would like to play” Audie Murphy” and live long enough to develop PTSD...I mean no offence…. because I suffer somewhat from PTSD….Am I the only guy who feels this way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A co Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I find that the Stug MG gunner is simply unbuttoning to fire when infantry targets of opportunity appear. And I wish they wouldn't do that, because it's often inappropriate for the threat situation. I wish BFC would make the Stug act like other vehicles, and stay buttoned up when ordered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 14 hours ago, IanL said: Yeah but guys we are not talking about stand off ranges you are talking about enemy infantry at the sides and rear. That's separate stuff. The crew are desperately trying to fend off the existential threat and survive the war. This is true...and I wouldn't have any objection if the behavior *occasionally* happened, or if it happened more often when the crew was rattled or panicking. But I don't think it should be the case that the loader *routinely* sticks his head out when enemy infantry are nearby. And it's even less realistic for another crewman to immediately man the MG after the loader has been shot for doing the same thing, particularly in the face of a "button" order. (If they were ordered to do so, it *might be* realistic...but these guys have been ordered not to do so). And we never see similar behavior (AFAIK) by the commanders of buttoned tanks. Even when they are surrounded by infantry, they never pop their heads up to man the AAMG in an attempt to drive off the infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 On 2/4/2016 at 4:24 PM, Redmarkus said: I'm playing the demo and loving it. Really great work. Just one minor observation so far. I seem to be suffering much higher tank crew losses to small arms fire when buttoned up than I'm used to. Has this been adjusted and, if so, how realistic is it? My Stug crews in the third scenario offered suffered a number of such casualties, not only commanders but gunners too. One Stug lost two crewmen in this fashion; with two crewmen remaining, it was able to move but not fire... Several other people have posted about the same problem on this forum. I can only recommend filing a bug report to BattleFront through their oficial channels (open a ticket at their helpdesk). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I thought that this problem was fixed some time ago? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Ian is right that the loader should use the MG to defend the tank, the problem is when every crew member starts to replace him and you end up with 2 or less crew members in a span of a minute. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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