Bil Hardenberger Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) DAVID: Is this a game or is it real? JOSHUA/WOPR: What's the difference? Okay, a while back Doug Williams who has a lot of tournament experience somewhere (even won one from what I understand), slapped me with a challenge.. and he plead his case well enough and with suitable humility (IOW he kissed my ass and stroked my ego ) and at last I finally relented. I insisted on an AAR game and I also reserved the right to choose sides once we had chosen a map. After looking at the map I decided to give him the Germans... I figure he'll purchase one or two elite Tigers or Elefants or something and thought it would be a nice challenge. The only other stipulation was that armor points be restricted to 1/3rd of our total available points.. We are playing a medium QB so each had 2560 points (standard rarity) to spend.. that leaves 853 for armor (tanks, SPGs, halftracks, etc.). My armor purchases look like this: So that is three Shermans and an M10 to hopefully deal with whatever giant tank he is bringing to the party. I left four points on the board... If Doug does indeed purchase Tigers then I expect him to bring two of them plus maybe one other type of tank.. STuG, Pz-IV, or Pz-III. For my infantry purchases I purchased two infantry companies (minus one platoon), plus a couple 57mm ATGs and three trucks for a gamey flag rush and plenty of mortar support: The terrain is shown below (QB map 260 I believe, May 44)... I expect the fight to be constricted, brutal, and hopefully not to the advantage of the heavy tanks... I am hoping the combat will be up close and personal. I think I have a slight terrain advantage... but will be doing my terrain analysis in a later post. Start positions (Axis SP is estimated) and the objectives (in green) are highlighted in the top map... Edited May 28, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Hmmm will be interesting to see how you get your tanks into the action. Looks a tough map for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Hmmm will be interesting to see how you get your tanks into the action. Looks a tough map for you. Trees. Lots of trees. Pretty small map, too, so the Germans' long range advantage won't be so noticeable, and there looks to be lots of opportunity for speedy Sherman side shots. Which won't help much if it's a Ferdi they're up against (as Bil speculates), IIRC; they'll have to achieve rear shots to penetrate, I think, or just plaster the TD enough while it's rotating to get it M-Killed somewhere it can't do any harm... The M10 can beat the side armour of an Elefant though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Yes I suspect the map will be a challenge.. there are few places to hide.. ...my biggest fear is of an artillery barrage on the road leading from my setup zone on turn one... that could be disastrous as it is the obvious route to the objective from my setup zone.. as Doug is a Gamey SOB I have to expect he will do just that and plan accordingly... however, he will expect me to expect him to do that because he's a Gamey SOB and I will have to plan accordingly.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0 Edited May 28, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Hopefully you won't be saying "Inconceivable!" too frequently And the battle will be as royal as Inigo vs The Man in Black at the top of the Cliffs of Insanity: "There was a mighty duel...both were masters." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 This will be fun to follow. Sure ain't bocage-country 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The map looks interesting. Seems like a fair bit of restricted and severely restricted terrain. A Forward Observer in a good elevated spot might earn himself a Silver Star and a four day R&R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Womble while I see the tree's I am not so sure it is a great map for Sherman getting the chance of side shots. I think if you looked carefully enough there will be some good LOS and long range. Not wide open for sure but I do not see this as a great map for tanks. Great map to put the two players to test. Bil thanks for doing this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Have you given much thought to loading a platoon+ on those trucks and sending them over that bare hill? The map looks great. Nice force selection (M10 in a Sherman platoon? Niiiiice.) The channelized terrain affects both of you. Awaiting MOAR!! Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 Have you given much thought to loading a platoon+ on those trucks and sending them over that bare hill? Affirmative.. no options are off the table at this point.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This is a really interesting map. The terrain relief gives a lot of elevation variations that I think will suit a U.S. player. To be sure there is a lot of open ground but scouting should mitigate to some degree the advantages of German long range capabilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Hey Bud, yes i agree that the terrain should favor my force.. I want him in close, with armor and with infantry... I do have a lot of support; MMGs, plus light and medium mortars, so my long range reach is not too insignificant either... so hopefully I can at least match his infantry's reach. Edited May 30, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Can you post which map this is please? It isn't 260 from CMFI/GL at least. Thanks, Bob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Can you post which map this is please? It isn't 260 from CMFI/GL at least. Thanks, Bob I think the map is 290. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I think the map is 290. With a fair amount if editing... Lots more trees in this version than the one in my install of CMFI/GL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 bobo, yeah I saw the same thing.. I think Doug might have done some editing prior to starting the scenario... best to ask him about that. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I do have a lot of support; MMGs, plus light and medium mortars, so my long range reach is not too insignificant either... so hopefully I can at least match his infantry's reach. Bil, don't you know the most deadly weapon you have is two companies worth of M1 Garands? I'm really looking forward to this battle, this should be fun! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Slim, yes the US squads have an awesome amount of firepower.. and in close (a few hundred meters) they totally outclass the German squad.. however outside of that the German squad has the advantage with their two LMGs.. this terrain should favor my squads though.. but we shall see. Initial analysis and order posts are coming up hopefully later today... I have already sent the first turn to Doug to get things moving. Edited June 1, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) TERRAIN The terrain in this one is fairly simple... we are fighting in a fish bowl. I really think the fight is going to be for control of the low ground (amber colored area in the following image). Of the four ridge lines (I have named each of them for ease of identification), the S Road Ridge dominates the terrain.. I will have assets up there but it is such an obvious artillery target that I have to be careful.. still it is a long ridge and I can distribute my forces to keep any damage to a minimum. Junction Ridge is so impassable that it would be a royal pain to get anything up there.. so I will most likely not be using it at all... at least at this stage I don't have any plans to put anything up there. I expect Doug to place assets on Finocchio Ridge and on Rovinetta Ridge... Rovinetta Ridge especially will be a nice place for Doug to place some hull down tanks. I expect the wooded terrain to be very important for this fight and I HAVE to move my forces into it to get to grips with the low ground... but it is also an obvious artillery target so I will have to be careful how I maneuver through there. Edited June 2, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ENEMY With the amount Doug had to spend on armor I expect to see up to three quality tanks on his side... I expect Tigers, but it could be JgdPzs, an Elefant maybe, who knows? If he goes with cheaper armor I could see up to four Pz-IVs, or several STuGs. One thing is clear.. I will find out relatively quickly on this small map, As for infantry I could afford two full companies (minus one platoon) and a plethora of support, mortars, MMGs, three trucks, so I expect to see at least two German companies as well, plus or minus depending on what support he purchases... I hope he came to the fight with no mortars or artillery Check out this view from the S Road Ridge..I have good visibility into the center of Doug's side of the map... the center road itself is very clear. This view shows how dominating the S Road Ridge is.. this view is from the middle of the German road: With the above in mind I expect that Doug will move similarly to what I have outlined below.. Avenue of Approach 1 (AA1) is the most obvious route and provides access to both of the center objectives. With Avenue of Approach 2 (AA2) I expect to also see him hugging the trees to move over the Rovinetta Ridge, especially with his armor... he will attempt to get some long range fire on my positions and this approach could give it to him. this is also a more covered route to the Rovinetta objective. Edited June 2, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I agree with your analysis that the coverage of the road itself will force Doug to use the trees. From your S Road Ridge it doesn't seem to me that you can reach far into those trees however. Does that mean he can get to the objectives, which are right on the edge of those woods, unimpeded? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Bud, it is possible I can see somewhat into those woods... won't know really until I get something on the ridge to take a peek... I expect though that unless he is moving heavy equipment, at least down AA1 he will be able to move mostly unspotted all the way to the Finnochio objective. There is open ground leading to the Rovinetta objective so I'm sure I'll spot any movement towards that one.. but I expect him to attempt the Finnochio objective first because 1. the route has better concealment.. and 2. He is closest to it (I am a long way from that objective). It will be a race to the Rovinetta objective I think.... he who controls those two center objectives will probably win the game. Edited June 2, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 To the left of AA1 in the third screenshot, is it possible for infantry to climb that hill? Personally I'd try to sneak an F.O. or H.Q. up there, with a short cover arc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 To the left of AA1 in the third screenshot, is it possible for infantry to climb that hill? Personally I'd try to sneak an F.O. or H.Q. up there, with a short cover arc. Slim, yes he can move infantry up that hill (that I am calling Finnochio Ridge) and that is an obvious spot for an OP.. I'm not worried about identifying where he might place OPs as there are only a few spots for him to use for that purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 and that is an obvious spot for an OP.. I really shouldn't post until I finish my coffee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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