Bil Hardenberger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Don't worry about it Slim, I appreciate your participation in the thread! What do you think of my analysis, anything I missed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well he could just power down the road and skip the cover of the trees and head for Rovinetta (kinda AA3 between your AA1 and AA2). I would not expect it to be a likely course of action but if he does have heavy tanks he might just push them down the road hoping for your shells to bounce off. I know I would consider it. Mind you I would dismiss it but ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The terrain is steep enough that even a 75L/40 is going to be able to penetrate, since it's got a good chance of hitting top armour... And if you get the positioning right, the return fire of even the german high velocity guns will have a good chance of glancing off the glacis, because of the ascent angle... I don't think a charge down the road is advisable... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) In my first orders report (coming this evening) you will see that I have that road covered very well from the start. He can try it if he likes, it might work out for him who knows, so go ahead and encourage him to make that run in his thread. Womble brings up a point that many forget.. the angle of the armor and an impacting AT round are very well (and realistically) represented in this game.. high ground and being hull down can be your friends and can act as an armor multiplier. For a good explanation of how this all works in the game see my CMBN AAR thread (first AAR link in my sig) where this is broken down and explained in a quote from Charles. Edited June 2, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Bil, Good mix of stuff. Terrain is tough. Might be hard to see spotting rounds. Looking forward to the action. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) The First Minute I am keeping this one simple, there is no reason to rush on this small map and especially knowing as little as I do about the force I am up against. My initial goal is to get as much intel as possible and to do that I want to get some eyes on the S Road Ridge and as far into the wooded defile towards the objectives as possible.Dog Company I am rushing Dog Company into the defile to get them in the trees and moving towards the low ground. Most of one platoon and two ATGs are mounted on my three trucks and will move forward as far as I deemed was safe from potential enemy fire. The three M4s will remain back on overwatch, their goal to snipe at anything that dares to show itself on the road.Easy Company Easy Company is going to be my reserve force.. but they too will be moving into the defile after Dog Company gets a chance to sort themselves out.HQ Company This formation including three medium mortars will be my S Road Ridge overwatch force. They will be joined by the M10 which I hope to use in a shoot and scoot manner once I start to identify Doug's force. During the turn not much popped up on Doug's side other than one Panther positioned to overwatch the road... 1-M4A1 spotted the Panther and got three rounds off... only one of which hit. I don't think the Panther ever spotted my tank and the fact that it was buttoned isn't helping. Following is the situation at the end of the first minute: Edited June 3, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What do you think of my analysis, anything I missed? Judging by this screenshot, if your opponent parks a heavy tank at the high elevation of Rovinetta Ridge, he would be able to sweep S Road Ridge with direct fire. The trees in front of the ridge offer a covered approach to the position. If he does field a Tiger tank, and manages to get it to an elevation high enough to neutralize your terrain advantage, I don't think you'll be able to knock it out. It's exactly the sort of Gamey SOB move I'd watch out for. I think the first few turns reconnaissance will prove decisive in this engagement. At the very top of S Road Ridge, you see that little bump? That's a good spot to post a scout team. It looks to be the highest elevation on the map, with good LOS and easy defilade from the enemy ridges. It's a little gamey perhaps, but gamey is the theme for this battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Wow, you posted while I was busy writing mine. That road is the last place I would have expected to see a tank, and it's a Panther no less. Rather unexpected. EDIT: Great screenshots BTW! Edited June 3, 2015 by SLIM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Bil, aren't your Shermans on S Road Ridge vulnerable to long range fire by Doug from just about anywhere where you can be seen? I'd be feeling nervous that this exchange with the panther could have gone the wrong way.im not questioning your tactics and positions, more trying to learn why you do things the way you do. Edited June 3, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Love this shot, nice eye Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Ditto. Photogenic or somesuch. The Sherman did well to land a hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 That road is the last place I would have expected to see a tank, and it's a Panther no less. Rather unexpected. Yeah I was surprised to see the Panther too.. a couple things about Panthers.. head on my tanks are not a match for them.. but if I ever get a flank shot that thing is very vulnerable. I think Doug must be feeling rather cocky with the Panther placing it there and letting it sit... he better unbutton though or he's going to lose the spotting matchup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Bil, aren't your Shermans on S Road Ridge vulnerable to long range fire by Doug from just about anywhere where you can be seen? I'd be feeling nervous that this exchange with the panther could have gone the wrong way.im not questioning your tactics and positions, more trying to learn why you do things the way you do. Of course my tanks are vulnerable.. but mine are stationary and Doug will have to move his into my field of view which will effect his spotting.. in tank v tank combat the spotting battle is where the thing is normally won or lost... moving and staying buttoned up (like Doug did with his Panther) makes it very hard to see and shoot at a hull down Sherman that is not moving. I'm not a fool though, Doug's Panther will probably get a spot on my tank fairly early in the next turn which is why I am withdrawing it (after a 15 second pause to put a few more rounds downrange). You have to take risks to win.. but make sure they are educated risks when you do, they will have a much higher chance of working out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Of course my tanks are vulnerable.. but mine are stationary and Doug will have to move his into my field of view which will effect his spotting.. in tank v tank combat the spotting battle is where the thing is normally won or lost... moving and staying buttoned up (like Doug did with his Panther) makes it very hard to see and shoot at a hull down Sherman that is not moving. I'm not a fool though, Doug's Panther will probably get a spot on my tank fairly early in the next turn which is why I am withdrawing it (after a 15 second pause to put a few more rounds downrange). You have to take risks to win.. but make sure they are educated risks when you do, they will have a much higher chance of working out. I hope you didn't take my question as criticism - it was not at all intended to be. As I read your AAR I think of how I'd respond and when it's radically different I love to hear your reasoning because that's how I'll learn. And sburke and c3k are right, that screenshot is so well done for a moment when I first saw it I thought it was a photo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 I hope you didn't take my question as criticism - it was not at all intended to be. As I read your AAR I think of how I'd respond and when it's radically different I love to hear your reasoning because that's how I'll learn. And sburke and c3k are right, that screenshot is so well done for a moment when I first saw it I thought it was a photo. Bud of course I didn't take your comment in a negative way, I hope my response didn't give you that impression. However feel free to be negative whenever you like if you see me do something stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What a newbie!!! Leaving his T/C buttoned!!! wonder if he just forgot? Too eager to send you a turn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Holien, many people, in my experience, keep their tanks buttoned to preserve their TCs.. I personally lose a lot of TCs in my games because I tend to keep them open for better situational awareness (especially in tank v tank action), that's a trade I am willing to make that many others are not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Following with great interest as always Bil. Really nice screen shots! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I personally lose a lot of TCs in my games because I tend to keep them open for better situational awareness (especially in tank v tank action), that's a trade I am willing to make that many others are not. "Some of you may die but that is a risk I am willing to take" My daughter is auditioning for a role in Shrek the Musical so that quote lept to mind. Edited June 3, 2015 by IanL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I usually make a risk call based upon chances of pesky inf being nearby on this map and knowing the set up zones I would have started with T/C out and spotting. To me at this stage why not have the T/C spotting. It will be interesting to have his view but we will have to wait for that as I will not be letting the cat out of the bag. Also I wondered when you did your threat assessment why Panther was not mentioned by you. Now that cat is out I guess your analysis was based upon what you would have taken? Tiger rather than a Panther? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Also I wondered when you did your threat assessment why Panther was not mentioned by you. Now that cat is out I guess your analysis was based upon what you would have taken? Tiger rather than a Panther? Yeah, I guess I rate the Panther as an inferior tank to the Tiger, it honestly never even crossed my mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Holien, many people, in my experience, keep their tanks buttoned to preserve their TCs.. I personally lose a lot of TCs in my games because I tend to keep them open for better situational awareness (especially in tank v tank action), that's a trade I am willing to make that many others are not. I'm the same, I tend to leave my tanks unbuttoned unless engaged in a fight with infantry. The difference in spotting is noticeable. But I lose a lot of TC's that way too, which is something that causes different problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 "Some of you may die but that is a risk I am willing to take" My daughter is auditioning for a role in Shrek the Musical so that quote lept to mind. Say that's a line in the movie isn't it? LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yeah, I guess I rate the Panther as an inferior tank to the Tiger, it honestly never even crossed my mind. As a German player I'll always prefer a Panther to a Tiger, at least on the western front. While the Tiger's 88 is less powerful the Panther's 75, it's powerful enough to deal with any tank the Allies have, and has nearly double side and rear armour to the Panther. When defending against Germans I plan for my opponent taking Tigers and hope he'll grab Panthers instead! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Second turn is in.. unfortunately I am going on vacation tomorrow and won't be able to get to it until I get back in the states 16 June... Quickly, a second Panther appears in this turn and takes my 1-M4A1 under fire hitting once and the round bounced.. that is the advantage of being on high ground.... my Sherman did hit the first Panther again in the front hull which of course bounced as well.. More in a couple weeks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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