coop_71 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 After my first few battles of Black Sea, it seemed like pitting two even MORE futuristic forces against each other for a CM: Space Lobsters wouldn't make much sense. The reason is that 2017 combat is already fast and deadly, so the forces spread out quite a bit. Even more futuristic weapons would spread the combatants out even more, so you'd have a single squad of future-troopers on each 1km x 1km grid. Combat would consist of sending weaponized drone swarms at your opponent, and might look dramatic, but not fun for a CM title. There would be two exceptions. The first would be to take the common sci-fi movie solution, and assume all weapons are controlled by their operator (think Star Wars). Then, you'd have WW2 with laser weapons, essentially. I don't think this would be very compelling, though, because it might play like a mod package of CMBN. The second, more interesting, exception would be an alien invasion scenario. Then, you'd have modern weapons (already done!) going against alien technology and tactics. The aliens can travel to Earth, but don't have the desire or technology to wipe out resistance in a day. "Starship Troopers", "Battle: Los Angeles" and "Edge Of Tomorrow" are a few movies that illustrate a few possibilities. Aliens could be plentiful but easy to destroy, similar to humans but tough to destroy, or very different and tough to destroy. Their strengths and disadvantages could require completely different tactics to succeed. Fast-moving aliens with short-range (for some reason) weaponry might be a fun combination. Additionally, the module possibilities are endless, as every country would send troops to fight aliens, or aliens from a different planet could get in on the invasion. The game would have to avoid the “kill the key alien and the whole invasion fails” trope, though, because that would make gameplay repetitious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 mmmm lobster. Do the ones from space taste as good? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Awhile ago I had suggested they take the 'Mars attacks' route and pit comically absurd space aliens weaponry against 1950s M47 tanks and infantry just like in the old movies. Maybe even set it in the desert southwest - in Technicolor! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1812 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I have nothing against Aliens and Futuristic settings, however I would settle for the Spanish Civil War or France 1940. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Go read Harry Turtledove's world at war series. Alien tech at about 2000 against WW2 stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I really like science fiction. Lots and lots. Here's my issue with CM: Mariner Valley though. Science fiction is less about "the future" and more commentary on our present placed in a fantasy realm. Hard science fiction draws more from "science" than "fiction" but it isn't to show us the future in a realistic sense. Combat Mission is all about realism. Which therein is the problem, how does a realistic wargame series tackle an inherently unrealistic setting? And further the amount of time to properly flesh out a believable science fiction setting is much more dramatic than simply shopping for conflicts that might be close enough to build on (which is no small feat in itself, but we have the US Army and the Russian Army, and their MTOE. We don't have to decide the US will become the Federated States of the Americas after merging with Canada minus Quebec, most of Mexico and Cuba, and that it's principle off-world force will be the Armored Cav Regiment, which is comprised of two armor battalions, and an air assault squadron of dragoons to clear complex objectives, while the Russian Federation will be the Slavic Empire in 2179 as a result of the catastrophic Baltic Wars, and the T-18 will use dual 200 KW DEW weapons, which will make it less mobile than other hover tanks). It'd be cool to see a science fiction wargame, but making Combat Mission the series for that is a bit like turning your local steakhouse into a Mexican resutrant. Both are things you might like, but you'd rather have both choices exist in parallel, and I'd rather have CM: Armageddon (the Ardennes to the Elbe), and then have Battlefront introduce "Under a Uncaring Star: Mechanized Warfare in 2179" as a separate product line, then miss out on more good modern/historical games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Remember BFC has been about 'realism' for just about 15 years. That extra measure of dedication makes the work particularly grueling. Maybe they'd like a break and just go for something FUN! As for realism, as long as the game follows its own internal logic then in context its 'realistic'. The space gun that fires face-eating squirrels will always have a consistent range of 200m, unless the planet has less gravity. Not that Space Lobsters is currently on their to-do list, as far as I know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure it's easier for people as familiar with the nitty-gritty of TO&Es to manufacture fictional "rational" force outlines from whole cloth than it is for them to dig out every last detail from sometimes obscure and potentially conflicting references in multiple languages. And nobody* can argue that the resistance to particle beam fire of the glacis on the United Earth Army's Tank, Heavy, Model 2110, Mark V is incorrectly modelled.But it would still be a huge surprise if Space Lobsters happened...Edit:* Well, nobody except the Pengites, or people doing it for fun, in a Mornington Cresecent kindof way. Edited February 17, 2015 by womble 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I would like them to do a realistic space combat simulator. A what-if scenario that assumes that the US and the Soviets never signed treaties like the 1966 Outer Space Treaty that prohibits stationing weapons on the moon or in orbit around earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Horizon Just imagine: Combat Mission in lunar gravity . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 For a space combat simulator, Starfleet Command was excellent back in the day for those into Star Trek. There is still room for CM to tackle Klingon, Romulan, Gorn and Federation ground combat. That is -- after France 1940. Ahem. Oh, wait. Royalties and property rights... Never mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Read Neal Asher... Space Lobsters are nothing to laugh at. The Prador Empire almost wiped us out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noltyboy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I to have Bolo AI controlled super tanks from the real Sci Fi books. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolo_(tank) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 While it is fun for us to speculate about this, it would be a huge risk for BFC to attempt to go down this road. Right now, they have an assured buying public devoted to a certain kind of game. It isn't huge, but it is pretty solid and BFC is very good at servicing their desires. To go off on such a wild tangent as is being discussed here would have to both appeal to a large segment of the existing audience and draw in considerable numbers of new customers. Failure to achieve both those goals would probably spell bankruptcy and demise for the company. Only if the game can be designed and produced in whatever passes for spare time at BFC, and therefore at little investment, can that risk be averted. I don't see that happening any time soon. Sorry to throw cold water; I have some ideas for SF games from fiction I read long ago too... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The other issue of course is the thousand flavors of science fiction. I would never in a thousand years play a game based on Bolos. Not a critism of liking the concept, but it's something I, despite being otherwise a huge science fiction fan, would readily pass on. Conversely, I'm sure there's lots of people who would have zero interest in seeing what the Colonial Marines* from Aliens would have done in a stand-up fight rather than a bughunt, which is pretty much something I would buy even at Steel Beast prices and I had to drive to Battefront's offices to pick up my copy. You make a world war two game, there's different theaters, but the crossover is better (there's no world war two setting outside of something really esoteric, like just Yugoslavia, Greece, and Crete and nothing else that I wouldn't at least look at). You make a modern game, you build a scenerio that'll hit all the high points (like CMSF and CMBS did). You do scifi? There's a lot of rabbitholes out there. *They'd likely have done pretty poorly anyway, but I like the gritty low-fi 80's futures of Blade Runner and the Aliens series. A future that's less UAVs, touch screens, and equipment done by Apple, and more Fulda Gap 1990 (as seen by 1980) playing out under an alien sky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 While it is fun for us to speculate about this, it would be a huge risk for BFC to attempt to go down this road. Right now, they have an assured buying public devoted to a certain kind of game. It isn't huge, but it is pretty solid and BFC is very good at servicing their desires. To go off on such a wild tangent as is being discussed here would have to both appeal to a large segment of the existing audience and draw in considerable numbers of new customers. Failure to achieve both those goals would probably spell bankruptcy and demise for the company. Only if the game can be designed and produced in whatever passes for spare time at BFC, and therefore at little investment, can that risk be averted. I don't see that happening any time soon. Sorry to throw cold water; I have some ideas for SF games from fiction I read long ago too... Michael I know this thread is more about dreaming than serious speculation, but IIRC Steve actually said some time ago that they maybe will someday turn away from making wargames. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I know this thread is more about dreaming than serious speculation, but IIRC Steve actually said some time ago that they maybe will someday turn away from making wargames. Blasphemy! Burn him! He's a witch, Begone foul spawn of Mephistopheles! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasMorbo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What was that Airborne dudes name who wrote that ridiculous Military-Sci-Fi stuff again? Ah, John Ringo!!! Just let extremely stupid and poorly armed alien hordes zerg-rush earth by the billions (Soviet Style) and put some highly motivated individuals with proper equipment*** against them and GET SOME! I just remember the re-activated USS New Jersey firing improvised canister rounds in direct lay against hordes of no-brain aliens who couldn't breach the ships armour efficiently with their weaponry... Stopped reading after 1 1/4 books. ***(with friendly support of your friendly Alien friends) GET SOME Olf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm usually a strong believer in needing to actually read someone's work before I can be too critical of it, but Ringo's reputation is such I feel comfortable avoiding his works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnzrldr Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 In fairness, Ringo is a mixed bag. He manages to combine some utter trash with some interesting stuff from time to time. Plus, how do you not like a novel that mixes at least 55 or 60 Shades of Gray hardcore S/M porn with Mack Bolan / Executioner style gratuitous pulp violence? ;-) Some of his more serious Sci Fi had some hypothetical asteroid mining/space station creating physics that I found interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnzrldr Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) However, for current Sci Fi, I go with John Scalzi. Awesome writer. Closest RA Heinlein I've ever read. And I of course have a complete set of Drake's Slammers series for occasional perusal. Funny how many of his concepts have come to pass in our current armored force. Actually in the market for some new stuff that is decent and thought provoking (or banal and overtly suggestive... as the mood strikes). Someone tee up their new favorite Sci Fi guy/gal. Edited February 18, 2015 by pnzrldr 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 C J Cherryh absolute by far favorite Sci Fi author. For a military side space warfare kind of novel - Downbelow Station. For just plain good political/geopoliticial thriller stuff, the Foreigner series.Plenty of intelligent aliens, no stupid raving bug creatures and physics for combat that make sense. Unfortunately nothing really at the tactical level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I would vote for Space Lobsters if given the chance since I love military science fiction. I read this series as a distraction during my last tour in Afghanistan. It's human on human installer conflict but the physics and science is very well done. A zero-pressure combat environment would definitely suck! The ship to ship combat is equally brutal. No shields. Short range microwave beams cooking crews and frying electronics to high speed kinetic mass rail gun type weapons fired at predicted vectors at super long ranges for a spectacular collision. It's very well done in that regard. The storyline ain't Starship Troopers quality but the science is much better and explained. Overall, I really liked it. Besides it's about Marines in space. Yut! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Trilogy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 There's also the legacy and inheritance trilogies in the same storyline. They're okay. I'm sort of tired of Marines in space though. David Drake is good. I never liked hover tanks but the rest of it is worth reading (just hard to think of it as a tank without tracks). John Scalzi is great. Love his stuff. The expanse trilogy is good too. The military stuff isn't a focus but it is well fleshed out and its a neat works for events to happen in. The upcoming syfi movie based on it will likely ruin it for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Someone tee up their new favorite Sci Fi guy/gal.Dunno if they count as "new", but:Peter F Hamilton The Reality Dysfunction and sequels. Or his earlier stuff for more special-forces-ey cyberpunky stuff.Alastair Reynolds Pushing Ice et alia.China Mieville Perdido Street Station is more science-fantasy/steampunk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 A couple of quick thoughts. Yes, I do Peng, but only in moderation. Lobsters - can move themselves by flipping (think 50-150m jumps), crawling, burrowing (tunnelling cockroach types? really fast, hard to see, pathing issues, sweet! Sorry Charles.) This introduces a "new" tactical environment and lends itself to the possibility of the "Kungai" lobster attack - if a squad is bunched two might get squashed while one gets his **** ****** off and **** **** ** ****. So surprise possibilities are good here. Few machines - limited resources (seriously, if the invaders resources aren't limited in some fashion there is no hope beyond germ warfare. That is not the greatest game concept to make the rounds, right there.) Maybe the back story takes out oil supply infrastructure, something like that? Humans vs Lobsters, not machines vs machines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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