Anyone have any luck with Stingers vs. CAS?

[apd1004]

I had a Stinger team dismounted behind some friendly units. I heard the sound of enemy CAS in the area, then I see the Stinger team fire a missile. A few seconds later a bomb or air-to-ground missile took out two Strykers that were parked way to close to each other. A minute or so later, the Stinger team fires its 2nd missile and again shortly after that a bomb or missile takes out another Stryker.

 

I just happened to save the game right before this sequence of events and I replayed it a few times with the same results each time. Maybe it was already beyond the point of any other possible result by the time I saved the game.

 

What effect do the various air defense weapons have on enemy CAS? I'm curious to hear some other stories.

 

I'd like to think a Stinger in the air might cause an aircraft to take some evasive action or maybe even get hit.

Edited February 8, 2015 by apd1004

[womble]

Maybe whatever the target is has countermeasures that are consistently effective against the Stinger at whatever engagement envelope the Stinger is hoping to score a hit in. As players, we don't really get enough information to make a judgement about the effectiveness of MANPAD in one instance, only over time. And even then, the perceived deficiency might actually be a systematic problem with a given nation's procurement, or how it gets translated into CM, at least; one way of looking at the US paucity of Air-to-ground in the tank-and-infantry battlespace is that they have undertaken their procurement in the expectation that they will have air superiority, so local AD is of secondary importance. So if the Stinger turns out to be a poor counter for whatever TacAir the opposition do manage to sneak past AWACS and the CAP, the US forces will suffer, and if the designers of scenarios disagree with the American assessment of their air to air superiority systems, there might be more TacAir incoming than even liberally scattered MANPAD can neutralise.

[Nerdwing]

Stingers, for all their flaws, should be pretty damn countermeasures resistant in their latest incarnation.  IIRC they have software to compare both the IR and Ultraviolet signatures of the target to prevent spoofing, so even if flares work against the former... the latter doesnt care

 

I imagine newer Russian MANPADS have similar capability.

[sburke]

I have had a fair amount of success with them, but a single Stinger team is not optimal.  Preferably you want a couple.

 

As to the turn sequence, are you replaying a saved turn? i.e. after the game has generated the movie or are you rerunning the turn to get a new save?  If it is the same save you will always see the same result as it has already been generated.

[John Kettler]

People,

 

You clearly don't understand how Stingers work. You're missing the causal connection. apd1004 clearly portrayed it. While anecdotal, the connection is obvious: Stinger missile launches result in dead Strykers on two separate occasions. Who knew the Stinger MANPADS was actually an ingenious, fiendishly clever Russian terminal guidance system for bombs and missiles--activated, no less, by American weapon launch?! Who's got the SecDef on speed dial?

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[A Canadian Cat]

I just happened to save the game right before this sequence of events and I replayed it a few times with the same results each time. Maybe it was already beyond the point of any other possible result by the time I saved the game.

The point where the possible out comes are determined is when the progress bar appears that says "Computing Realtime something or other". If you save just before that you can load and regenerate a different outcome and then watch that outcome and repeat. If you do not see the computing progress bar you are not generating a possible outcome but just watching something that is set in stone.

What effect do the various air defense weapons have on enemy CAS? I'm curious to hear some other stories.

 

I'd like to think a Stinger in the air might cause an aircraft to take some evasive action or maybe even get hit.

Anywhere from nothing to destroying the enemy aircraft. Breaking off their attack to evade is one of the possible outcomes.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Yes. One of my stingers just downed a Russian helicopter. Type unknown but probably a Hind which, shortly before, destroyed a Bradley. I heard it whupping about and the APS on a nearby M1A2 knocked down what I think was an ATGM. Nothing else hostile, as far as I know was in the area so it had to be a Russian helicopter. Brought a Stinger Team forward from the nearby wood line where I had concealed them. Within a minute or so the helicopter returned for another pass, The Stinger Fired and I got an "Aircraft Destroyed " message Scratch one Hind! Oooorah!

[Chazz]

Haha I think I played the same mission that you are talking about apd1004. In my playthrough the stinger team surprised me by scoring a kill with their first shot (Su-25SM). However, they missed subsequent shots and didn't even scare the rest of red air away. They proceeded to bomb multiple Strykers to oblivion and then some BMPs and a T-72 forded a river and finished off the rest.

 

Just goes to show that even when lucky, Stingers are very inadequate as means of proper air defense. Certainly not one team at least.

 

 

 

 

[PanzerPajamas]

I've found this too. Even with Stinger team(s) on the map, players can expect to lose several vehicles to Russian air. Hiding vehicles in the woods also offers little protection. Clearly a huge capability gap compared to the Russians.

[apd1004]

 

Haha I think I played the same mission that you are talking about apd1004. In my playthrough the stinger team surprised me by scoring a kill with their first shot (Su-25SM). However, they missed subsequent shots and didn't even scare the rest of red air away. They proceeded to bomb multiple Strykers to oblivion and then some BMPs and a T-72 forded a river and finished off the rest.

 

Just goes to show that even when lucky, Stingers are very inadequate as means of proper air defense. Certainly not one team at least.

 

 

 

 

 

This is part of what I was looking for. So it is possible for Stingers to score a kill. Is there any other results possible, like forcing an abort on the aircraft, or maybe evasive action which delays weapons release until another go-around?

 

I understand the real-life capability of a Stinger missile. The idea isn't to kill an enemy aircraft, although bonus if you get that result. You want the aircraft to take evasive action or abort the attack, or at least buy you enough time to find cover or get the heck out of the area.  

Edited February 8, 2015 by apd1004

[lordhedgwich]

i have no luck with iglas

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Yes, US air defences do seem to be a weakness. Apparently this is a concern in the real world as well.In recent wars the US has had everything their own way in the air and so neglected tactical AA defences in paticular. I have just found out (the hard way) what happens when Hinds catch a combat team in open terrain. It really is not a pretty sight

 

Next time I will have learned to pay more attention to AA overwatch and more carefully consider how I position my stingers

 

Some of these scenarios arre just downright evil and I increasingly suspec the most evil were designed by ACTUAL military professionals/ Great work guys!

[Vanir Ausf B]

 Is there any other results possible, like forcing an abort on the aircraft, or maybe evasive action which delays weapons release until another go-around?

 

I am not sure about evading and trying again, but aircraft can be forced to abort the mission.

[BlackMoria]

I just finished playing Objective Delta and the sole Stinger unit took down the SU-25 Frogfoot on its first pass.  Most likely a luck shot but it is the only scenario so far I have played in which the Russian air has actually come out to play. 

 

I played some other scenarios in which Russian air is warned of in the briefing and I got Stingers but the Russian air was a no show...

[Bennay]

i had an interesting moment in the 'ambush' scenario as red i heard a hind fire off an ATGM then my igla launched a few seconds later there was a explosion just off map no air kills i assumed this was an aborted atgm 

[gunnersman]

I did have some luck with my Stinger team. I had them positioned on the highest terrain I could find ( A big knoll). I also had them about 500ish meters behind my M1's.  It was an ideal position. I figure the closer to my most valuable assets and on the higher terrain for all around view of the airspace, the better.

[Macisle]

I've had Stinger teams (2 on map) down both a Hind and a drone during the same battle.

 

However, they seemed to be asleep for about 30-40 minutes. Then they woke up and were pretty effective. During the earlier time, they were in the same place as they were when they started shooting later. So, I don't know why it took them so long to engage. Russian air was very active during the period when they weren't taking any shots.

[dstal]

I had a Stinger team down what sounded like a fixed wing aircraft.

 

The interesting part is that a moment after receiving the 'Aircraft destroyed' message a Stryker blew up, so either the aircraft was destroyed after releasing it's ordinance or there was a second aircraft operating in the same area.  I think it was the former situation, because I didn't hear any aircraft after the Stinger hit its target. 

 

Also, the Stinger team immediately panicked and routed after the Stryker was hit even though they were more than 100 meters away with buildings between them and the Stryker. Not sure if the panic was caused by the explosion or being caught out in the open when the aircraft attacked.

 

There was no other combat occuring, so everything was related to the aircraft (or possibly a second one I couldn't hear).