weta_nz Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just wanted to show some appreciation to the designers/AI programmers of the QB maps and 3.0 features After originally trying some QBs back in the V1.0 CMBN days and not been impressed I haven't really played QBs. For Red Thunder though I decided to play somes QBs because I wanted some small battles to try using Russian Infantry and equipment without using up the actual scenarios and was plesantly surprised at how well the AI has performed. As I 've run (literally head first!) into some great defence by the AI. The battles have all been Soviet infantry (attacking) vs German AI infantry (defending) with some AA and antitank support medium to small maps. I'm not sure what has changed (besides maybe the inclusion of triggers) and possibly the terrain is a a factor but I thought I'd share some highlights: After fighting my way into the village objective a platoon of previously unseen enemy infantry appeared out of a forrested area on the left flank of the village (basically in the rear of my units as my axis of attack at that point was from left to right). Only some hastilly repositioning of troops managed to stop them breaking back in to the village objective area as the time was running out on the clock. I guess the AI plan included a trigger which worked perfectly in this case - it really felt like some reinforcements had arrived and aggressively attempted to relieve there comrades Also I've noticed situations where I've felt I've managed to 'route' an enemy squad only to find they have retreated a short distance found a nice reverse slope (or just outside the visible range of my troops) turned around and manage to pick off more of my troops as there commander (me) incompetently rushed them forward to finish them off. I now split squads and do a lot more crawling/slow in forrested areas unless I want my pixelcomrades taking unnecessary casaulties turning around and retreating - Lesson learned!! Finally I'm sure I've seen (but can't confirm - maybe I imagined it) an AI controlled squad trying to retake ground, in the heat of a firefight, it had lost. Again maybe it was a trigger but it certainly looked great seeing some 'brave' soldiers trying rush back to a previously held wall and maintain the defensive line. Anyway - whether its new AI routines, AI triggers allowing better AI plans or just my imagination the QB's I have played have certainly been worth the time. Thanks to those involved in providing them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I second this. In a recent QB the AI launched a pretty surprising counterattack that had me needing to re-organize one flank and my centre to contain it. That really added to the sense that there was some kind of intelligence I was up against. In previous QBs it mostly felt like I could just keep moving forward regardless, nothing would develop to stop my plan. That's changed so kudos to the QB map/AI designers, great job using the trigger capabilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yep. I'm totally back into my "bad" habit of SP QBs. I can't seem to get started on any scenarios/campaigns because I'm always tired when I play and I keep saving them for when I'm fresh. However, like you, I'm finding the QBs in CMRT more challenging and fulfilling than I am used to in BN. I also commented in another thread about how the AI infantry seems smarter in v3.0. I haven't checked the editor for triggers, but it seems too micro to be that. Like you say, the AI troopers seem to consistently fall back a bit and use reverse slopes/cover more effectively to ambush again than they do in 2.12 BN. But this could be a host of various factors working together (tweaked awareness with hide, tweaked concealment from terrain, etc.) and may not actually be a specific upgrade in ambush behavior by the AI. Dunno. Also gotta' say that I am loving the maps in CMRT. Really excellent work, map guys. Thanks! I consider myself a Western Front guy, but I am really getting into the the Eastern Front big time. I never really wanted to go above a reinforced company in CMBN, but I'm playing SP QBs with up to 5 companies of infantry (usually only 3 see any action, though), plus lots of armor and loving it in CMRT. Right now, I am once again (seems to happen a lot as German) sending a full platoon of PIVs through the woods an action square or two ahead of the infantry to push through a wooded area. NEVER would have done that in BN! Current losses: 3 of my men for about a platoon's worth of AI defenders. 'Course, a human opponent would have dropped arty on me by now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh, gotta add: In the woods like this, I always watch the replay one time from the troop's "first person" view once before I toggle trees to trunks only and zoom out a bit. With my current batch of graphic and sound mods, it's super-immersive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The AI has become self aware... Skynet has become active. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 If you want an interesting challenge vs. the AI, do a Small Probe battle on the small open map (the objective is a rail line, but I think it will come up automatically) as the Germans. Set troop type to "mix". I've found it difficult even when I pick my own troops. Enjoy! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I am gratified to hear your comments. I am working on another round of maps to include in the first patch (whenever that is) that I think are where QB Maps should be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weta_nz Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Great to hear the additional comments. Again kudos to BF and the map makers/designers Thanks for the info MarkEzra - I look forward to more maps!! Great for replayability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yes Mark, although we seem a grumpy and demanding lot, in fact your efforts are much appreciated. QBs are the gift that keeps on giving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Bennett Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I like the QB's best too because for me I think I finally have the "Computer Squad Leader" experience I had hoped for since the early days when Combat Mission was in the works as a joint venture between Avalon Hill and Battlefront (formerly known as "Big Time Software") I think. Having the ability to play scenarios with a handful of squads, and a few field guns or 2 or 3 AFV's to spice things up. To me that is in keeping with the true Squad Leader or Advanced Squad Leader tradition. I still like to think of those board games as the ancestors or great great grandparents of the CMx2 games we now have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hi, Yes... Mark, plus Phil and Charles for the coding of the new AI, have done a great job. Equally.. I also agree that small – medium QBs have a great feel to them, very involving. Mirco management is fun . We are lucky to have CM... All the best, Kip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I am gratified to hear your comments. I am working on another round of maps to include in the first patch (whenever that is) that I think are where QB Maps should be. Thanks, Mark! That's great news! One thing that you and BF might want to check into is QB AI armor sometimes not setting up anywhere useful (like near the map edge with limited LOS) and just sitting there while its infantry is worn down. While I've been impressed with AI infantry setups and micro-actions so far in CMRT, I have noticed that AFV setup problem a few times. But so far, I haven't noticed any odd AI setups like this from a QB in CMBN 2.12: Here's hoping for more good things on the SP QB front in coming BN updates as well. And thanks again for all your excellent, hard work! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh no! This is terrible news. I might have to buy this game now having got away with a few years of bleating about QBs being useless under CMx2. My last resort is that the system demands more than my 3gb laptop can offer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioa Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 In recent small probe qb battles ai purchase mix forces i have found only antitank team without the weapon thei are missed ! I have no save to reproduce. Is this a bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh no! This is terrible news. I might have to buy this game now having got away with a few years of bleating about QBs being useless under CMx2. My last resort is that the system demands more than my 3gb laptop can offer. Your last resort excuse is no longer valid either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It would be interesting to hear from Battlefront as to what if anything has changed in the tacAI. I have certainly experienced one or two surprises against the AI when trying to take a village - in particular AI squads lying in wait behind a building (on the "reverse" edge) and catching one of my squads as it went past. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirling Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Will all the CMBN and CMFI maps be redone when those games are upgraded? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 In recent small probe qb battles ai purchase mix forces i have found only antitank team without the weapon thei are missed ! I have no save to reproduce. Is this a bug? if you are describing an AT Gun Team then that might be a bug. If you swee it again just save the file and post to the forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Will all the CMBN and CMFI maps be redone when those games are upgraded? I don't know. I'm responsible for the CMBN QB Maps but not the CMFI QB's. We are talking about a pretty large, time sucking project, but CMBN is worth it. I do have a method in mind that might speed up the process to maybe 30minutes per map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiterider Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thank you so much Mark! Certainly it´s a big improvement for CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 BFC is Da Bomb...literally. If the AI continues to hand me my backside like it did in The Angriff QB, I'm gonna hafta stick to trolling this forum. And believe me, no one wants that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I don't know. I'm responsible for the CMBN QB Maps but not the CMFI QB's. We are talking about a pretty large, time sucking project, but CMBN is worth it. I do have a method in mind that might speed up the process to maybe 30minutes per map. Given the exponential improvement of the AI in the excellent RT maps, that is the sort of project that I would happily pay to have done, via a pack or additional patch, or whatever. Who did the CMFI QB's by the way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Who did the CMFI QB's by the way? The credits list Michael Andersson and myself. But it was all Michael's fine work. During that period of time I had to stop Map work due to some ongoing eye sight issues (only one eye and it isn't up to snuff)...I should not have had my name included on CMFI/GL. And while I'm about it: QB Maps is always a co-operative venture. I rely heavily on the scen, campaign maps, and Master Maps, along with my own (ever shrinking volume) maps. My only task is to modify the maps for QB Map function. The AI and New trigger system is all BFC.... absolute genius! So why does my name show up under Quick Battle Maps? I am solely responsible for the end result. If a map doesn't work as intended it's my fault and I will do my best to fix it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Mark and Michael deserve a lot more praise than they get. I suspect the QB maps get so much use over the entire CM population that it would amaze us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Mark and Michael deserve a lot more praise than they get. I suspect the QB maps get so much use over the entire CM population that it would amaze us. I think that is generally true of the entire team. Except me. Seriously the amount of work everyone does that you only get a glimpse of every now and then is pretty awesome. Sure there are always things that slip through the cracks etc, but the percentage is incredibly small despite what you might think from only seeing the public forum. BF has a pretty incredible, very dedicated group of people and I think the product shows that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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