German SMG Squads?

[weapon2010]

Didn't the Germans also field scary smg squads?I can recall being torn up by German smg squads when I played CMBB back in the day.So why all the hype about the Russain smg squads?Why wouldn't the axis player just counter by buying a few platoons of smg squads?

[Apocal]

Didn't the Germans also field scary smg squads?I can recall being torn up by German smg squads when I played CMBB back in the day.So why all the hype about the Russain smg squads?Why wouldn't the axis player just counter by buying a few platoons of smg squads?

Perhaps because they aren't massed the same way Soviet squads are so you gimp yourself on points by cherrypicking?

[MikeyD]

Russian PPSh had a ROF of more than twice the MP40. The 7.62 pistol round could outrange German SMGs by perhaps 80m(?). The big advantage of the MP40 is if you survived the initial assault you're likely to have some ammo left to continue the fight. PPSh guys are likely to blow through their ammo load in no time flat.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I'm not aware of any German all-SMG squads. The closest thing to that would be Sturmgrenadiers, which are armed entirely with MP44s.

[Vark]

CM 1 had them on the late-war German TO&E, (MP40's and 1 MG42 IIRC) but I was less than impressed, too few and they normally made no decisive impact. Can units scavenge ammo from fallen soldiers, I know they can cherry pick good weapons, but ammo?

[LukeFF]

Can units scavenge ammo from fallen soldiers, I know they can cherry pick good weapons, but ammo?

Of course they can, and they've always been able to do that in CMx2.

[c3k]

Hmm, I had platoons of German SMG's, but that was back in...Panzerblitz.

[Erwin]

CM1 definitely had all-SMG German squads, possibly even SMG platoons.

(Have no idea if that was realistic, but they were fun so long as the ammo lasted - about two turns at max rate firing IIRC. The trick was to split em into two teams and use one for actual shooting and keep the other back for "ammo resupply" when the teams were recombined.)

[Skwabie]

The closest thing to that would be Sturmgrenadiers, which are armed entirely with MP44s.

Yeah those were cool as well. But they can't even resupply ammo:mad:

[AttorneyAtWar]

Yeah those were cool as well. But they can't even resupply ammo:mad:

I think Steve specifically mentioned that we will be getting ammo resupply for STG's in Red Thunder, and of course further on down the line it will be added to the other CM2 titles.

[Skwabie]

I think Steve specifically mentioned that we will be getting ammo resupply for STG's in Red Thunder, and of course further on down the line it will be added to the other CM2 titles.

Yep, that'd be nice!

Meanwhile, more CMSF...

[Fenris]

Just checked... And yes there was indeed an SMG platoon of 3 squads with 8 + an MG each in the '44S Grenadier Battalion in CMBB.

-F

[Ts4EVER]

This is actually a mistake. It is true that the Germans introduced "MP-Züge" or smg-platoons, but these were supposed to be equipped with the MP44, not the MP40. They were later renamed to "Sturmzüge", possibly because the Germans themselves got confused.

[akd]

It was a TO&E mistake codified in the US Handbook on German Military Forces, and so widely propagated. However, supply of MP44 was insufficient to meet the TO&E demands (you might have one division with 2,000 MP-44 and another with zero), so some units had to make do with concentrating whatever self-loading weapons (MP40, G43, etc) were available into designated "sturm" sub-units.

[Fernando]

The problem was supplying the ammo, not the MP-44's.

OTOH Guderian ordered on October 7th, 1944, to all Army Groups to colect all MP-40 and K-43/G-43 rifles from service support forces, artillery, PaK, signal forces and HQ's then exchage them by K98k.

The collected weapons had to be used the following way:

1. The self-loaders replacing K98k in the infantry companies were to be concentrated in the units in order to achieve an increase of firepower, as well as a homogeneous an better weapon training for increasing functionality

2. The MP-40's were to be issued exclusively for equipping tactical reserves of the battalions and regiments, and for units activated by command.

[womble]

I think Steve specifically mentioned that we will be getting ammo resupply for STG's in Red Thunder, and of course further on down the line it will be added to the other CM2 titles.

Yeah, Steve said they're doing a bunch about ammo resupply, as part of the ammo dump (still ought to be called cache... ) feature. I'm trying to rein in my hopes, but it's difficult... There ought to be a way of explicitly adding extra ammo of all kinds into a force, especially for campaign purposes. An example is the Road to Nijmegen campaign, where the Irish Guards, even though they're tasked with driving deep into the enemy lines without resupply don't have a single extra PIAT bomb or grenade or 50mm or 81mm round in their convoy. Surely with an operation like this in the planning they'd make sure the support weapons could at least have a chance of keeping firing "all day"; bullets and shells are much cheaper than the lives of trained soldiers...