CMRT - BETA AAR - German Side

[BFCElvis]

Elvis,

Did you do the deeds with PzGr 39, or is there PzGr 40 available for such tough AFV targets as this monster?

39

Elvis,

There's a reason the British in the Western Desert kept firing at tanks they hit until they either burned or exploded. That way, you're sure. If the situation doesn't permit this, may I suggest keeping infantry in a position to put bullets into anyone trying to enter the beast? As for mortars, you're most likely talking potentially devastating treebursts. Since Bil's under time pressure, he can't back off (probably wouldn't; not his style) and ride out the strike. Besides, who knows where the next spotting round might come down? And what if you really drop a fire mission on him, rather than a spotting round? He already knows it's bad to sit tight. So we're clear, I don't know where his infantry is relative to your current target area. Have you considered Target Linear across his estimated front? Don't know whether this is allowed, and it might screw up your shoot. Again, am not sure.

To me, his only viable decision is to close rapidly, seeking to have your fire mission land behind his men. In the Vietnam War, this was known as holding the belt buckle and was assiduously practiced by the VC and the NVA. The thinking was that if their soldiers were really close to ours, then we wouldn't be able to use our huge firepower against them, lest we hit our own troops. He doesn't have your belt buckle yet, and you have nothing like U.S. Vietnam War firepower, but I think he's lunging for your belt. I have no handle on TOF if you decide to let him have it, nor any sense of how fast his men can move toward you. But I believe that to avoid having your 120s paste him, he's likely to push his men hard enough to force them to rest a bit following dash or die. It'd be great if you had some hot lead there as a welcoming party.

Regards,

John Kettler

The fire mission is linear, along the tree line. Even near misses should be helpful.

I did get one more hit before having the Hetzer bugger off. It didn't show as a penetration but maybe the shrapnel hurt some of the crew. The scout that has been creeping around there for a while, doesn't quite have a line of sight. He needs to rest before I put him back to work. All the crawling around has made him exhausted.

[BFCElvis]

I will withold any advice since I'm reading both threads and I'd hate to inadvertantly reveal information. Oh, was that a hint to others? Hmmm, maybe. Maybe not.

Nice with the Hetzers.

I like the Blau setup; what do you think are the pro's and con's of your plan? Give us your thinking. How do you see the rest of the battle unfolding?

Ken

The pros are that from the angle he will be coming in from, I'll have depth. Until the last turn (more about that when I get the screen shots together), I thought he'd really have to slug his way through the area. Unless he had so many troops that he roll right through.

The cons are that I don't have enough real firepower to put enough of a hurting on him. No real antiwar more assets either. I have a flamethrower that I hope gets to fry him a little but that is it.

I always assumed I wouldn't be able to hold BLAU. And I still don't expect to. What I would like to do is have it be more work than he bargained for and take a lot of time off the clock.

[BLSTK]

What about reviving the death clock? Always thought that was a nail-biting feature!

"The game's going to overtime!"

Sorry, Gents. I'm not quite ready to say goodbye to Sochi.

Back on thread, I cannot count the number of times I've squeaked out a win in "injury time". So, yes please to bringing it back.

[womble]

"The game's going to overtime!"

Sorry, Gents. I'm not quite ready to say goodbye to Sochi.

Back on thread, I cannot count the number of times I've squeaked out a win in "injury time". So, yes please to bringing it back.

I don't think that's what John was referring to. "Variable end time" is already an option; what JK was talking about was the time between the shot that killed the vehicle and it actually showing up as dead to the units shooting at it, which in x1 was, AIUI, somewhat randomly determined (as opposed to being determined using a spotting engine that is largely deterministic, with random elements).

[BLSTK]

Thanks for the clarification, womble.

To me the clock always spells "death."

[Battlefront.com]

Actually, the "Death Clock" officially refers to when you hit an armored vehicle there's a random amount of time before the crew bails and (therefore) the shooter knows the target is eliminated. Back in the early CMx1 days a tank would poke a hole in something and within a second was already targeting something else. Once the Death Clock was implemented tanks would routinely put at least one extra round into the target. Unless it blew up. Then it's kinda obvious another one isn't needed

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

I will withold any advice since I'm reading both threads and I'd hate to inadvertantly reveal information. Oh, was that a hint to others? Hmmm, maybe. Maybe not.

I think we're all being very responsible We're commenting on Elvis' behavior and the situation from Elvis' point of view. Honestly, I'm easily able to shut off my knowledge of the other side. In fact, I haven't cross referenced his spotting round impacts with Bil's forces or his stated intentions. For all I know I'm suggesting Elvis pound a single LMG team that's taken a break for vodka and biscuits

Look at this from Elvis' knowledge:

1. He knows the Soviets want to get into OBJ Blau

2. He knows those forces are now within 1 turn's striking distance

3. He knows that Bil is not one to fart around

4. He knows mortars take a little time to go from Spotting to FFE

5. He knows mortars take a little time to have the full effect

6. HE knows that if the mortars fall after Bil's forces have left the woods, he might as well not bother having the rain of steel

Ergo... Elvis should know to let loose the mortars of war I would have probably let them go a turn or two ago when I was pretty sure of force location, vector, speed, and intent. Generally you get a better result from hitting them where they are going rather than where they already are.

So it's maddening to me to see Elvis holding off knowing what he knows

Steve

[BFCElvis]

I think we're all being very responsible We're commenting on Elvis' behavior and the situation from Elvis' point of view. Honestly, I'm easily able to shut off my knowledge of the other side. In fact, I haven't cross referenced his spotting round impacts with Bil's forces or his stated intentions. For all I know I'm suggesting Elvis pound a single LMG team that's taken a break for vodka and biscuits

Look at this from Elvis' knowledge:

1. He knows the Soviets want to get into OBJ Blau

2. He knows those forces are now within 1 turn's striking distance

3. He knows that Bil is not one to fart around

4. He knows mortars take a little time to go from Spotting to FFE

5. He knows mortars take a little time to have the full effect

6. HE knows that if the mortars fall after Bil's forces have left the woods, he might as well not bother having the rain of steel

Ergo... Elvis should know to let loose the mortars of war I would have probably let them go a turn or two ago when I was pretty sure of force location, vector, speed, and intent. Generally you get a better result from hitting them where they are going rather than where they already are.

So it's maddening to me to see Elvis holding off knowing what he knows

Steve

I'm not holding off anything. I began that fire order 7 or 8 minutes earlier. If I could bring them in faster I would.

[womble]

Actually, the "Death Clock" officially refers to when you hit an armored vehicle there's a random amount of time before the crew bails and (therefore) the shooter knows the target is eliminated.

That still exists then? I'm pretty sure I've had targets that have bailed immediately I get a good hit, and others that have taken several seconds (even without a second shot) to mull over their options...

[A Canadian Cat]

That still exists then? I'm pretty sure I've had targets that have bailed immediately I get a good hit, and others that have taken several seconds (even without a second shot) to mull over their options...

Not only is the time it take for a crew to bail variable but the tank that is doing the shooting will only know the enemy tanks is dead when it can observe that it is. Witness this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110416 where I thought there was a bug because my Sherman could not kill a PzIV. In fact it turns out that the PzIV was dead after the second hit but because of the heavy forest the Sherman crew did not know that and kept shooting. In this case 6 more times - Yikes.

[John Kettler]

Elvis,

Thanks. Appreciate ammo clarification. Is PzGr 40 available at all now for dealing with the IS's and ISUs specifically? I ask because in some the Russian firing trila stuff I've seen, I'm fairly certain I saw PzGr 40 refererenced, and the tanks under discussion were Panthers and both kinds of Tiger. Didn't know Target Linear was available outside of canned scenarios, having recalled very strong positions being taken even before MG on why no such missions should be allowed, save as prep fire. On balance, I'd say you're doing very well against Bil. Bravo

c3k,

Having inadvertently been the "mouth that grew legs" in a different AAR, rest assured I'm being careful in what I say and making sure I say it in the right thread.

BLSTK,

Steve and womble understood me perfectly. The present RED OT is generally my bane and seems, as in Barkmann's Corner with me as the Germans, to be a special kind of torture.

Steve,

I like your mortars of war, especially as an acronym. MOW. Elvis needs to MOW down Bil's frontoviki! Rather apt, considering mortar bomb fragments scythe through their victims.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Battlefront.com]

I'm not holding off anything. I began that fire order 7 or 8 minutes earlier. If I could bring them in faster I would.

Good to hear! Then don't touch it and it will come along soon (yes?). Moving the target area restarts the spotting round cycle.

Steve

[BFCElvis]

Good to hear! Then don't touch it and it will come along soon (yes?). Moving the target area restarts the spotting round cycle.

Steve

I had originally set it up a circle area where it looked like he was getting ready to gather. I was given an 8 minute time then. After 4 minutes I changed it to the linear and it added two minutes. It has been dropping spotting rounds for 2 or 3 turns now...In my last post of screen shots I mentioned that I was going to keep the HQ in place for another turn or two until it began to fire for effect. One turn was too many, as you'll see when I post the screenies I took this morning.

[BLSTK]

Say it ain't so, Elvis.

[BFCElvis]

Say it ain't so, Elvis.

Oh yeah. It'll still bring down the rain and considering that he is coming from everywhere it might even do some good. But yes....He is dead....Real dead....BBQ'd dead....flaming death. ...no dental records stuff..........

Did I mention that he was dead? He is.

[Chops]

But yes....He is dead....Real dead....BBQ'd dead....flaming death. ...no dental records stuff..........

Did I mention that he was dead? He is.

Our hero Sgt. Schultz? dead? damn you Elvis. First you kill Tubeguy and now Schultz.

[BFCElvis]

Joined the choir invisible.

[womble]

Sure he's not just resting? Tired and shagged out after a long fire mission? Pinin' for the Fjords?

[c3k]

Too bad. Had he been fighting under my command, in his last non-flammable moments, he would've rejoiced that his spirit would be sent to Valhalla, borne upon the very flames which immolated his earth-bound body. Indeed, he would have been filled with joy to see a stream of fire bearing down upon him, had he but been able to die for me. Instead, his tortured soul shall spend eternity knowing that he died for you. His one shred of hope was that I had been watching. I was, Sergeant Shultz, I was.

[Vark]

c3k's message to his troops

[BLSTK]

Are you certain he didn't just self-combust?

He always seemed rather spontaneous to me.

[Offshoot]

Joined the choir invisible.

After a brief stint in the choir inflammable. Shouldn't joke really - the chorus of cries that go up when a whole unit is hit (as in Chris's video) I find quite disturbing.

[Vark]

At least you can't smell the charred bodies, or will BF be soon foraying into 4th dimension gaming?

[BLSTK]

If you must blame someone, Baneman's granddaddy invented fire. You can look it up.

[BFCElvis]

If you must blame someone, Baneman's granddaddy invented fire. You can look it up.

Society is to blame.