PanzerMike Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sounds great pnzrldr! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Is there a possibility to use artillery with this? So that artillery can cover a withdrawal for instance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 During gameplay the Human moves his units cautiously along the road. Unknown to him he runs over the Trigger Objective and that springs the tank destroyers into action. They appear on top of a hill 800m off to the left, catching the player's attacking tanks in the flank and (hopefully for the AI) knocking some out. After a couple of minutes of trading fire AI Group 3 executes another Order to move back behind the hill for cover and then relocate to a new spot to then be tied into a new Trigger Objective so as to repeat the same sort of thing but from a different location. That's just one quick example. Without Triggers the designer would have to guess when to have the tank destroyers crest the hill, which could be too late or too early. Now it happens right when it should. Steve Excellent !! This is what i have been waiting and hoping for for a long time... reacting enemies...thank you, thank you, thank you !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdogg Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 So now that we have triggers that allows the ai to react rather than time based orders, can we finally get rid of scenario time limits? Or atleast play past the time limit in sp indefinately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Time limit has not changed. It is up to the scenario designer what time he gives a player to complete the mission. Ofcourse, if you really want more time, enter the editor and crank up the times. Your choice. Still, sometimes the time limit is a deliberate decision by the designer that serves a purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdogg Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You can't open campaigns and adjust the time limit with out the third party scenario organizer. If you do open the scenario and simply increase the time you have to mess with the time based ai orders. My point is that now that we have triggers could designers please give us max time so we can take our time and enjoy the work rather than rush to beat the clock like its a soccer match. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You can't open campaigns and adjust the time limit with out the third party scenario organizer. If you do open the scenario and simply increase the time you have to mess with the time based ai orders. My point is that now that we have triggers could designers please give us max time so we can take our time and enjoy the work rather than rush to beat the clock like its a soccer match. As a relative newbie designer, I'd have to say it really depends on the scenario. Part of the intent in scenarios is to put you in a place and time to understand why tactics and tools were developed the way they were. Having all the time in the world to do something creates an artifical condition, essentially eliminating a lot of the aspects of combat that required you do things within the framework of a larger plan. In addition the time factor can also be part of the tension of a scenario where you may be forced to take risks that with no time limits you would not. In some cases extending the time frame for the player may be fine. In others it could ruin an otherwise really cool scenario. On the positive side, triggers should allow for better scenarios that can be much more loosely connected to the game clock and much better tied to player actions. It won't necessarily automatically translate to eliminating time pressures across the board. That may just be part of the conditon for the player to confront. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Agree with sburke. Action tends to be very different when you have to do things within time limits and can't avoid risk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdogg Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thats kind of what I'm getting at and why I am so fired up about the addition of triggers. I welcome scenarios that are more dynamic and give the player flexibility. I feel like a lot of these campaigns play out like your on a ride at Disneyland that's on rails and there's not much room for the player to elaborate. If feel like stingy time limits are big culprits. So like I said bring on triggers and here's to a more dynamic and reactive ai that doesn't have to be tied to the game clock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdogg Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I get what your saying about scenario specific time based objects. Case in point would be the navy seals in operation Geronimo, now that's a time sensitive scenario. But in the cm setting this is conventional combat, so if a battalion is ordered to take a hill and 2 hours into the attack they are 50 ft from the objective no way the attack stops because they need 45 more minutes to complete it but stop watch ran out of time so it's game over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thats kind of what I'm getting at and why I am so fired up about the addition of triggers. I welcome scenarios that are more dynamic and give the player flexibility. I feel like a lot of these campaigns play out like your on a ride at Disneyland that's on rails and there's not much room for the player to elaborate. If feel like stingy time limits are big culprits. So like I said bring on triggers and here's to a more dynamic and reactive ai that doesn't have to be tied to the game clock. I think they will help and they definitely now allow designers to develop scenarios that are more reactive. Part of the previous restriction was the ONLY criteria was the clock. I expect you will see more of a mix now with longer scenarios being not just possible, but competitive for the player. It should also eliminate the potential of the AI suddenly going on a goofy deathride that you simply watched pass by from the other side of the map scratching your head in disappointment - a designers worst nightmare. My first scenario was Venafro and was mostly done because I liked the map. With these triggers in place I would likely have come up with something totally different and probably much closer to the original concept I had. Others maybe not so much. Out on a Limb was more intended to force the player to decide a course of action and then have to deal with whatever result came about based on the AI plan. I don't think I would really have wanted to change that to respond specifically to the player nor give the player more time to think. In summary I think the answer for you is yes, but don't always expect it to be true. The result should be for you that you won't feel like you are always under clock pressure so you may appreciate those where you are more. Could be a win win all the way around. I'll also caveat that a bit as another thing the triggers allow for is much better coordination for the AI in attack, that has always been a sore point. You may find there are more scenarios and campaigns where the player is on defense now and in those I expect you will find time to be in shorter supply. The AI wants to have fun chewing you up too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 ...if a battalion is ordered to take a hill and 2 hours into the attack they are 50 ft from the objective no way the attack stops because they need 45 more minutes to complete it but stop watch ran out of time so it's game over. True, the Bttn in question will still carry on and clear the objective, but if another aspect of the offensive can't go ahead until the objective is clear (perhaps it overlooks a crucial route of advance), the attack has still failed in its objective. Often, it's not clear in a briefing why there's a time limit, but that's more, IMO, a fault of the briefing, rather than of the presence of a time limit per se. Something to consider when you're thinking about the time available is that CM activity proceeds at a greatly accelerated pace, compared to RL. So if you're 45 minutes late in CM terms taking that dominating terrain objective you had been given 2 hours to get, you might be three, four hours late on an 8 hour task in RL terms, and that's enough to unhinge an operation, especially if you're not starting at dawn. It'd be nice if there were time-based VCs, giving the option of VP penalties linked to how far "over time" you fell, and/or giving bonus VP for attaining the objective earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh great... can't wait for PaperTiger to shred my forces in new and varied ways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 It'd be nice if there were time-based VCs, giving the option of VP penalties linked to how far "over time" you fell, and/or giving bonus VP for attaining the objective earlier. I like this idea... having more options with regards to the objectives and how to fullfill them could be another good way to increase creativity amongst the scenario designers (besides triggers). An idea i mentioned in an other thread a few months ago is an other way to increase the flexibility of the objectives... TO HAVE SOME OF THE OBJECTIVES ASIGNED TO A SPECIFIC UNIT... - having THAT unit fullfill the objective parameters will give FULL POINTS and if some other unit does it that will result in reduced points given for that objective (or non at all)... I'm sure there are many more ways but these two to ad to the objectives flexibility...Would be a good addition to the game i think... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Like Womble wrote time based victory objectives would be nice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permanent666 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 as my question was not answered (or I did not see the answer). Will there be objective based triggers for reinforcements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 as my question was not answered (or I did not see the answer). Will there be objective based triggers for reinforcements. Not this time around, unfortunately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneAge Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Is there a possibility to use artillery with this? So that artillery can cover a withdrawal for instance. I would like to know this too or if we now have an ability in scenario AI plan creation to delay pre-arranged artillery. ie fire on cross road X at scenario start +30 minutes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 I would like to know this too or if we now have an ability in scenario AI plan creation to delay pre-arranged artillery. ie fire on cross road X at scenario start +30 minutes This would be a big improvement for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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