Moveable waypoints possible future enhancement?

[noxnoctum]

It's great that we have moveable waypoints in CMFI, it definitely lightens the micromanagement load, but one small adjustment would lighten it even more: being able to adjust the waypoints of units that you do not currently have selected (if you're playing with show all waypoints on). It's a small change, but it would have a pretty big impact, especially when you are managing a very large force. Having to zoom in and click on each unit before moving its waypoint can be a bit irksome, and in some very crowded situations, you're just better off deleting and starting over, which kinda defeats the purpose. It doesn't make a big difference with just a few squads, but if you're trying to, say, order 30-40 vehicles down a road in a convoy it can get maddening.

In CMx1 you could have a slew of lines criss-crossing over each other but could quickly and easily adjust things by dragging the lines in the needed direction (without having to click on each unit before dragging its movement orders around).

IMO it's subtle things like this that make the workload of CMx2 sometimes seem quite massive compared to CMBB and CMAK. Being able to move waypoints at all is a great improvement, but being able to do so without clicking on each unit first would make a massive difference.

CMx1:

I have my HQ unit selected, but I can click on any of the lines of the other units and start moving them immediately (it selects the unit automatically). If I have no unit selected, I can still do this (the waypoints still show even if you have nothing selected, hotkey for showing them is Shift-P by default in CMx1).

CMx2:

I have my HQ unit selected, and I can move its waypoint, but I cannot click on any of the other lines to select their corresponding unit (the circled ones). I have to instead find the unit itself, click on it, and then I can move the waypoint. If no unit is selected the waypoints don't show at all. (I'd prefer them to still be visible but this is a minor issue, the main thing is just being able to click on any waypoint without having to click on the unit itself first).

It's the difference between constantly looking back to your units to select each one individually to adjust its waypoint, or simply having a bunch of move orders in a general area and then being able to quickly adjust and finetune them. With a large number of units the extra work adds up real fast.

[c3k]

I could be wrong, but we can do that now. Click on the line segment OR the waypoint and you move the waypoint.

Consider it backported into your build after your request.

Ken

[noxnoctum]

Haha you're right. Weird, I coulda sworn...

Memories of CMBN must have merged in my mind or something.

Anyways, a nice surprise, thanks!

EDIT: Ok nevermind, I see why I was confused. In the game currently, you can only click and move the waypoint of the unit you currently have selected (whether the end point or the line segment). So if you're like me, and always play with "Show all move paths" (Alt-P by default), you cannot click on one of the other lines and start moving it. You have to first select that unit and then move the line.

So what I would like to see implemented, is being able to select other lines while either having another unit selected or no unit selected at all. (this is what was in CMx1) I edited the first post, I'll post up some screenies just so it's clear what I'm talking about.

[Holman]

I can see how the requested change would help. It's certainly not a huge problem right now, but the improvements are nice to have.

But for me this thread now illustrates the AMAZING degree to which CM maps have gotten better.

[stikkypixie]

I could be wrong, but we can do that now. Click on the line segment OR the waypoint and you move the waypoint.

Consider it backported into your build after your request.

Ken

Don't you need to have the unit selected first for that? I believe in CMx1 this was not necessary. Probably not top top priority but still

[noxnoctum]

It seems like a really minor thing, but it really is so helpful (to my playstyle at least) to not have to select a unit first before moving its waypoint. Particularly in say, a large armored battle where I have a mass of tanks approaching a hull down position. Obviously the exact spot to stop will be slightly different for each vehicle, so you have to micro somewhat. It's so much easier to do this kind of thing in CMx1 because you can issue a mass move order to everyone at once first, and then very quickly and efficiently adjust as needed. In CMx2 I have to continually go back and select each unit. Like I said earlier, it does add up over time. There's lots of things I hope to see added to CMx2, but an improved interface is probably near the top for me. Even the best of games can become a chore to play if it lacks those little touches that makes the whole thing go over smoother.

[Michael Emrys]

It's the difference between constantly looking back to your units to select each one individually to adjust its waypoint, or simply having a bunch of move orders in a general area and then being able to quickly adjust and finetune them. With a large number of units the extra work adds up real fast.

I've had similar thoughts myself. Most of the time I am playing in View 3 and having to shift the map around a lot in order to find the unit I need to click on in order to move any of its waypoints can get to be a lot of work. Just being able to click on a waypoint or move segment to select the unit would make life easier.

Michael

[Vinnart]

I liked that feature too in CMx1 where one could select the unit by clicking on it's movement line rather than having to select the unit. I would say I controlled Cmx1 much using the line selection for adjusting waypoints since it keeps the camera at the movement line rather than having to move it to select the unit to make adjustments. Perhaps we will see this convenient feature make it’s return someday.

[c3k]

Selecting a unit by clicking on any part of its movement path is DIFFERENT than what the OP stated. However, I agree that it would be nice to have that functionality...coupled with the camera staying put. I'd hate to pick a movement path and then have the camera zap back to the unit. So, yes, +1 from me for that.

Ken

[tdogg]

I would like this feature as well, this would really help managing the multi company or battalion sized scenarios.

[Erwin]

+1 to being able to click on ANY waypoint/line in order to select the unit (instead of having to go back and find the unit itself first). That would save a LOT of game time - esp in large scenarios.

[noxnoctum]

Selecting a unit by clicking on any part of its movement path is DIFFERENT than what the OP stated. However, I agree that it would be nice to have that functionality...coupled with the camera staying put. I'd hate to pick a movement path and then have the camera zap back to the unit. So, yes, +1 from me for that.

Ken

Yes I got a bit mixed up with what was missing in CMx2 vs CMx1. So I edited my original post.

[womble]

I see what you're saying, and sometimes I agree, but I can forsee just as many "I clicked on a line by accident and plotted waypoints for the wrong unit" problems.

[Baneman]

I see what you're saying, and sometimes I agree, but I can forsee just as many "I clicked on a line by accident and plotted waypoints for the wrong unit" problems.

Fog of War

Seriously though, that sort of thing didn't happen very often in CM1, so I can hardly see its incidence increasing in CM2. And the occasions when it happened in CM1 ( I assume it must have happened to someone, but I don't recall it ever being a problem for me ) are certainly outweighed by the usefulness of being able to do it.

Occasions of "I plotted waypoints accidentally" in CM2 usually seem to occur from double-clicking on Company HQ's before plotting their movement.

[Michael Emrys]

I see what you're saying, and sometimes I agree, but I can forsee just as many "I clicked on a line by accident and plotted waypoints for the wrong unit" problems.

That occurred to me too, but I think on balance that the change (or reversion?) is a good idea if the coding for it is reasonably easy.

Michael

[noxnoctum]

I see what you're saying, and sometimes I agree, but I can forsee just as many "I clicked on a line by accident and plotted waypoints for the wrong unit" problems.

I don't see that happening really. It pretty much never happened for me at least in CMx1. A nice thing about the CMx1 system was when you'd pressed the key to issue a new waypoint (M, Q, whatever) you could no longer accidentally select other lines. I would hope/assume it would be the same in CMx2 if the change was made. The only time where it could even be an issue would be if you're moving a bunch of units down the same road, but to me, going to CMx1's system would still be infinitely preferable. Huge time saver.

[Battlefront.com]

This is something that is definitely possible. This is, I think, the first request I've seen for it since CMSF was first released. Because moveable waypoints or not, the ability to click on movement lines and switch units is still applicable. So I don't feel too bad about forgetting about this behavior since in 6 years nobody that I know of has mentioned it until now

There's an argument to be made for the camera moving and a counter argument for keeping it stationary. I think the better way, most of the time, is to have the camera remain stationary. Though we can see what the testers thing for sure.

No fears about accidental waypoint movement. The behavior I'm picturing would be one click on a movement line to select the unit and then click/hold to move a waypoint. This is a pretty good safety feature to avoid accidental movement and it also is kinda necessary because waypoints aren't explicitly available except to current units.

Steve

[stikkypixie]

This is something that is definitely possible. This is, I think, the first request I've seen for it since CMSF was first released. Because moveable waypoints or not, the ability to click on movement lines and switch units is still applicable. So I don't feel too bad about forgetting about this behavior since in 6 years nobody that I know of has mentioned it until now

There's an argument to be made for the camera moving and a counter argument for keeping it stationary. I think the better way, most of the time, is to have the camera remain stationary. Though we can see what the testers thing for sure.

No fears about accidental waypoint movement. The behavior I'm picturing would be one click on a movement line to select the unit and then click/hold to move a waypoint. This is a pretty good safety feature to avoid accidental movement and it also is kinda necessary because waypoints aren't explicitly available except to current units.

Steve

Please make it so , this + moveable waypoints makes fine tuning orders much much easier.

[tdogg]

^ Sweet, so this means you will make an effort to implement this ?

I think this was mention last year when CMFI came out and we first tested the moveable waypoints, but didn't gain much traction. I was expecting the moveable waypoints to include lines as well like CMx1, and was bummed it wasn't, so it would be nice to get this added.

[Chek]

I concur

[noxnoctum]

This is something that is definitely possible. This is, I think, the first request I've seen for it since CMSF was first released. Because moveable waypoints or not, the ability to click on movement lines and switch units is still applicable. So I don't feel too bad about forgetting about this behavior since in 6 years nobody that I know of has mentioned it until now

There's an argument to be made for the camera moving and a counter argument for keeping it stationary. I think the better way, most of the time, is to have the camera remain stationary. Though we can see what the testers thing for sure.

No fears about accidental waypoint movement. The behavior I'm picturing would be one click on a movement line to select the unit and then click/hold to move a waypoint. This is a pretty good safety feature to avoid accidental movement and it also is kinda necessary because waypoints aren't explicitly available except to current units.

Steve

Awesome to hear! I look forward to it being added . I've always felt like CMx1 was "easier to play", and it took me a while to realize it, but the way the waypoints work is probably the #1 reason (for me at least). So it would be a huge relief to no longer have this getting in the way.

And I definitely agree that the camera should stay stationary. This allows you to quickly adjust orders for a large number of units while still looking at their end destination (which is of course the thing that you're fine tuning them to... the crest of a hill, a gully, a house, etc.) If the camera moved we'd be back where we started (excessive moving around the map to find units/terrain)

[hoolaman]

This is something that is definitely possible. This is, I think, the first request I've seen for it since CMSF was first released. Because moveable waypoints or not, the ability to click on movement lines and switch units is still applicable. So I don't feel too bad about forgetting about this behavior since in 6 years nobody that I know of has mentioned it until now

I think everyone was too busy begging for movable waypoints for most of that time.

[JonS]

There's an argument to be made for the camera moving and a counter argument for keeping it stationary. I think the better way, most of the time, is to have the camera remain stationary. Though we can see what the testers think for sure.

Keep the camera stationary - if the player really wants to go back to the unit, they can press [tab] after clicking on the line.

ISTR requesting at some point that targetting lines have the same functionality. tht is, clicking on a targetting line selects that unit.

[Vinnart]

Keep the camera stationary - if the player really wants to go back to the unit, they can press [tab] after clicking on the line.

[Erwin]

The desirability of being able to click on any waypoint or line and immediately be able to issue orders to that unit has definitely been raised several times b4 on these forums ever since CMSF. That extremely useful CM1 feature is probably by far the most time-saving item making CM1 much faster to play. It would make CM2 much quicker to play as well - esp larger scenarios.