Do we really need the deploy command

[JasonC]

Womble - agreed. My main objection would be addressing with a "deploying" text that shows up instantly, no delay, if that is what they are currently being ordered to do. And a toggle is the worst possible control for this sort of thing, because when you want it to happen, ordering it not to is the worst possible thing, and when all you have to do to get that disaster result is think of it twice over the course of a turn or pause, touring around the battlefield... As for "bright", it is just useless as an indicator, gives no idea which side of the toggle means which, etc.

And yes, proper "face" without having to explicitly order it would help with the action spot silliness. They do about the right thing with linear forms of cover with a face command, but with crew served weapons the overwhelming, only important placement question is where the weapon itself goes, and the men should just cluster naturally around it. It is crazy frustrating to not have micro control over that actual placement, and then to see them "deploy" their weapon 3 meters shy of the hedgerow. "Hey, this private with a carbine can see things, must be the right spot". Then need to pick it up and move it 3 meters to shoot anything with the actual weapon, etc etc.

[JonS]

To JonS and his snark - undeployed MGs don't fire. Soldiers stand around getting shot at and figure hey, we are supposed to be a piano moving service not soldiers, so let's do nothing about it.

Um ... have you actually played CM?

PROTIP: Undeployed MGs sure do fire. And so do the rest of the guys in an undeployed MG team.

The only reasonable objection I've heard is that people want to save mortar ammo by not having them pop off at random targets.

That's interesting. Because, as far as I can tell, no one has made that objection. ONE person has pointed out they keep them undeployed (which, apocal, you could probably do as well with a covered arc), but it wasn't an 'objection', and it wasn't 'people'.

Jason, normally you're pretty sharp. Much sharper than this.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

I don't believe there can be much argument that the way the game displays whether or not a crew served weapon is currently deploying or not is, shall we say politely, less than optimal. Others may say impolitely, fooked up!

Regards

KR

[Vanir Ausf B]

I look at the far left display of what each individual man is doing. If they are deploying then one or more will be listed as doing so. But I do agree with womble that there should be a "deploying" status added to the central info pane.

[Badger73]

Am I really the only person who leaves his mortars undeployed to keep them from wasting rounds at random targets?

You are not alone. I do it too but more to let them rest or keep them ready to move out again quickly. I typically avoid allowing them LOS in direct fire mode because whatever they see can and will shoot back at them. (I have exceptions to that SOP too, depending on the situation . . . )

[Fizou]

I do it too but more to let them rest or keep them ready to move out again quickly.

This is what I do as well. If Im moving from A to C and halt/pause at B, I dont want the team to deploy their weapon as that will prevent them to move out again at an instant.

[Rocky Balboa]

It's fine as it is. Good grief, it's one button click.

Yes Its just one command but UI space is precious and if we can eliminate one button or reduce the amount of micro management required than it’s a win for the entire game.

I didn’t intend to start this thread as a complaint, and to be honest I’ve played enough now that I rarely forget to manually deploy. However, with that said, new players might find the mechanic a little cumbersome to get used to. My main thought in starting this thread is to discuss some other ways that but crew served weapons deployment might be handled in a better way. We also know that there are some UI changes coming soon so now might be a good time to provide BF with some feed back.

In my opinion [target],[target arc] and [area target] commands should all assume that the crew needs to deploy the weapon so anytime one of these commands are issued to an un-deployed weapon it should immediately begin deployment. Therefore anyone wanting to manually deploy would simply issue one of these commands. Note: [Target Arc] would cause the weapon to deploy but not fire. In addition un-deployed weapons should automatically deploy when they come under fire (This assumes they are not pinned or cowering of course).

It is still my opinion that all trained crews would automatically deploy their weapon when in combat during even a brief stop. Perhaps a switch that forces the TacAI to deploy the weapon if the unit hasn't been issued a move order in the last 2 minutes.

Again these suggestions are just some thoughts and not meant to be seen as complaints but just some ways to improve the system.

[JonS]

Yes Its just one command but UI space is precious and if we can eliminate one button or reduce the amount of micro management required than it’s a win for the entire game.

Perhaps, but none of the suggestions so far would reduce MM, and some would increase it.

I didn’t intend to start this thread as a complaint, and to be honest I’ve played enough now that I rarely forget to manually deploy. However, with that said, new players might find the mechanic a little cumbersome to get used to.

Ah yes, those idiot noobs we all care so much about How will they ever figure it out -

think of the noobs!

In my opinion [target],[target arc] and [area target] commands should all assume that the crew needs to deploy the weapon so anytime one of these commands are issued to an un-deployed weapon it should immediately begin deployment. Therefore anyone wanting to manually deploy would simply issue one of these commands.

In general, that's true. But there are occasions when it it not. The current system can cope with the exceptions. The proposed system(s) cannot.

un-deployed weapons should automatically deploy when they come under fire

I can see that causing more problems than it's worth, to be honest.

(Although, that probably depends highly on your style of play.)

It is still my opinion that all trained crews would automatically deploy their weapon when in combat during even a brief stop. Perhaps a switch that forces the TacAI to deploy the weapon if the unit hasn't been issued a move order in the last 2 minutes.

That would cause me all sorts of problems. And I don't think it's terribly plausible - from a realism perspective - either.

[Erwin]

Personally, I often move units and not want them deployed at that time. I can't believe I am the only player like that.

[mjkerner]

Personally, I often move units and not want them deployed at that time. I can't believe I am the only player like that.

You aren't, Erwin. I move them around all the time not wanting them to deploy until I have them in position.

@Rocky, I don't think they would deploy anytime they stopped, but rather only when they stopped and were told to "dig in" or similar command indicating this is where are fighting positions are going to be. And for making short hops moving from one piece of terrain to another to get a better fitring position, etc., no way they would set up at each stop.

For me, I actually enjoy the micromanagement aspect of commanding them when to deploy.

For those who can't tell if they are deployed or whether you even ordered them to or not, get JuJu's UI mod (I think it was his). Very colorful, and you will have absolutely no problem telling whether or not a particular command was given...a given order is highlighted until it is cancelled or another order is given. So the "Deploy" button stays "lit" until you cancel/override it. And the picture of the weapon in the UI is in a big square that says either "Deployed" or "Not Deployed". You simply can't miss it.

@JasonC, like JonS said, undeployed HMGs will fire away just like the non-deployable lmgs.

[YankeeDog]

Personally, I often move units and not want them deployed at that time. I can't believe I am the only player like that.

Nope; you're not. I definitely don't want my heavy crew-served weapons deploying automatically whenever they stop. I want to deploy them specifically where and when I have decided they are in a good fighting position, and not have them waste time deploying & packing up every time I stop them along a movement route in order to wait to wait for the path ahead to be cleared or whatever.

I agree that the UI should show deployed vs. undeployed could be improved, but this is a slightly different topic and, as noted, there are mods that help this.

[womble]

In my opinion [target],[target arc] and [area target] commands should all assume that the crew needs to deploy the weapon...

If they did, they'd be wrong some of the time, so I'm hoping your opinion carries little weight with BFC. Consider the cases already mentioned of mortars. Or German HMGs which can fire "semi-deployed". It makes a lot of sense to issue a short cover arc to several kinds of teams in order to stop them engaging targets you don't want them to with weapons that haven't or don't need to be deployed.

Losing the "Deploy" button or "D" direct key assignment wouldn't make any difference to the interface: what would you replace it with that couldn't go in one of the currently unused command spaces?

I look at the far left display of what each individual man is doing. If they are deploying then one or more will be listed as doing so.

True enough once the turn is running, or at the end of a turn, but it's still a faff to see whether you've issued a Deploy order during the command phase. Same applies to Button/Unbutton. Fortunately they're both reversible toggles, unlike Dismount or Bail...

[Childress]

Yes Its just one command but UI space is precious and if we can eliminate one button or reduce the amount of micro management required than it’s a win for the entire game.

But there's a claque of players who want- really want- SOPs. In other words, more micro-management! Don't you care about them?

[General Jack Ripper]

Q: Do we really need the deploy command?

A: Yes.

[LukeFF]

I can already hear the complaints now if crew-served weapons automatically deployed when reaching a waypoint.

[_Itchy]

I like the flexibility of the deploy command but would prefer that they deploy by default after completing their last movement order. If I don't want them to deploy then I give an explicit command for them not to.

[Michael Emrys]

If I don't want them to deploy then I give an explicit command for them not to.

How? A Do Not Deploy button? That would be too easy to forget in play IMHO.

Michael

[sonar]

What I think is the real problem with mg deployment and would like to see, is the ai deploying mg's automatically.In single player it seems they take an age to deploy, and the los issue's due to gun placement is a pain.

[Rocky Balboa]

@JonS, You heartless cad, looks like the children are finally making themselves heard ...

[Erwin]

Well LOS in CM2 is a PITA as it changes so much depending on variables. Height of viewer is an acceptable one. But, so many times you can see a target with your third ammo bearer, but the gunner cannot, so the gun can't fire at the target.

In that instance you would expect the team to simply move the gun a couple inches so that it can shoot at the target. But, CM2 engine doesn't do that and it's often impossible to manually order sucha move either. Big issue imo.

[_Itchy]

How? A Do Not Deploy button? That would be too easy to forget in play IMHO.

Michael

With exactly the same toggle button that we have right now - I am just suggesting it is toggled 'on' by default rather than toggled 'off' after a move.

[womble]

With exactly the same toggle button that we have right now - I am just suggesting it is toggled 'on' by default rather than toggled 'off' after a move.

So they'd deploy (and then pack up) at every waypoint? Obviously that's not your intention, so there would have to be logic added to check whether the "current" waypoint is a terminal one or not. That logic does already exist and is employed in the Hide command, but changing the default won't please any more people than it pisses off. Especially the ones still in 1.xx who forget to turn off the toggle for an ATG which insta-deploys and then takes minutes to pack up again.

And changing the default takes more effort than just changing the variable, so it's not likely to happen.

[_Itchy]

That logic does already exist and is employed in the Hide command, but changing the default won't please any more people than it pisses off.

You may be right. I guess it depends on how the majority of folks make use of the deploy command as it is. Personally it is only rarely that I don't deploy weapons after units finishing moving. So switching the default would benefit me. But perhaps I am in the minority...

[womble]

You may be right. I guess it depends on how the majority of folks make use of the deploy command as it is. Personally it is only rarely that I don't deploy weapons after units finishing moving. So switching the default would benefit me. But perhaps I am in the minority...

It's not just the frequency of its use, it's the embuggerance level of the default applying when you didn't want it to and forgot to turn it off. Which is large for some teams, and the same rules of expected behaviour have to apply to all crew-served weapons, or madness lurks. I'm sure I give Deploy orders at the terminal waypoint more often than not, too, but I'm equally certain that I'd rather it stayed the same as it is now.

[Sailor Malan2]

Why is deploy such an issue? Dont you guys ever move and then hide? Or apply a facing? Or a target?

Meethinks this is a solution in search of a problem. I just have a mental checklist on 'last move waypoints: do I want to deploy/hide/face/fire/unbutton/whatever? No? Move to next unit. There really are loads of things you might want to do... why pick on deploy?