Do we really need the deploy command

[Rocky Balboa]

I've always wondered why this command was necessary, shouldn't any basically trained weapons crew automatically do this whenever they stop moving?

Why do we need to have additional micro management when the TacAI should be able to handle this?

[WallysWorld]

I don't know. Do you want the teams to automatically deploy its weapons every time they stop moving?

Sometimes I move my weapons teams to a different location and have them stop and wait until I tell them to move on.

[noob]

I've always wondered why this command was necessary, shouldn't any basically trained weapons crew automatically do this whenever they stop moving?

Why do we need to have additional micro management when the TacAI should be able to handle this?

A HMG team can still fire in a semi deployed state, with increased concealment at the expense of accuracy, so if you need it to engage as quickly as possible, you do not want it to wait 20 seconds until it can fire, and also expose itself more.

[Holman]

Think about moving troops through a city or village environment. You'll frequently stop behind buildings waiting for the moment to move forward, but you definitely don't want your weapon teams to set themselves up every time they stop.

[SlowMotion]

And also the cases like anti tank guns when deployment takes several minutes.

[Rocky Balboa]

I don't know. Do you want the teams to automatically deploy its weapons every time they stop moving?

Sometimes I move my weapons teams to a different location and have them stop and wait until I tell them to move on.

As I said before, even green troops fresh out of basic, when manning a crew served weapon will follow SOP and SOP normally says when you stop for any length of time in combat, then prepare your weapon to fire, Otherwise your weapon is useless.

My feeling is that the tac AI should start to deploy the weapon from the time that it stops. If they receive a move order before they are setup then they move out as normal. If they are already setup then you have the delay to pack up before moving.

Like wise if you move a crew served weapon and then give them a target order at the end of their movement then [Deploy Weapon] command should be assumed. Cant target unless your deployed right? The exception would be semi deployed weapons (see my comments below). I shouldn't have to issue a deploy weapon command and a target command as well.

With an already cluttered UI just seems like this command is unnecessary micro management.

A HMG team can still fire in a semi deployed state, with increased concealment at the expense of accuracy, so if you need it to engage as quickly as possible, you do not want it to wait 20 seconds until it can fire, and also expose itself more.

Weapons that can fire in semi deployed state will always be able to do so immediately while the crew prepares for full deployment. IMO any added concealment that the weapon may receive from while being semi-deployed is offset by the increased accuracy the weapon gets from being fully deployed.

[Rocky Balboa]

And also the cases like anti tank guns when deployment takes several minutes.

AT guns are definitely a different case but normally when they are given a move order its very short. However, to prevent the gun from deploying too soon, have the target/area target command initiate the deploy command. This way you can move your gun into position and issue a target/Area Target command to begin deployment.

I personally think they will at some point need to make AT guns function more like vehicles so that the crews can leave the gun and then re-crew the gun when needed.

[Badger73]

<snipped>

My feeling is that the tac AI should start to deploy the weapon from the time that it stops. If they receive a move order before they are setup then they move out as normal. If they are already setup then you have the delay to pack up before moving.

<snipped>

I disagree. Deployment and, more importantly re-deployment, takes time. Before they "move out as normal" they have to pack back up whatever they unpacked in the prior movement phase especially with WEGO. There are many situations where speed matters and losing time should be avoided. There are also occasions where I want my weapon crews to stop and rest before proceeding. Automatically un-packing and re-packing will tire them more quickly. I prefer the current process where the TacAI does not deploy crew-served weapons automatically.

[agusto]

I've always wondered why this command was necessary, shouldn't any basically trained weapons crew automatically do this whenever they stop moving?

No, they shouldnt if deploying the weapon takes longer than maybe 20 seconds.

[Holman]

We don't always just move our units straight to where we want them to set up. Tactical movement involves short stops. The guys carrying the MG do not set up the tripod and arrange the belts when they know they're going to pick up and move to the next hill in one minute. And they especially don't do it when the whole reason they stopped on this spot temporarily is that it is out of sight of the enemy and unlikely to come under fire.

In game terms, the real question is this: do we lose anything by losing the deploy command, and do we gain anything by abandoning it? I think the loss of realism and tactical flexibility greatly outweighs the one-second gain of not clicking a button to deploy.

[JasonC]

I agree with the initial poster. I find this specific order incredibly annoying and fiddly. Half the time I can't tell from the interface whether they are currently under orders to deploy the weapon, or not. It is also annoying that they seem to exercise remarkably little "tac AI common sense" about deploy locations, interacting with the rough 8m action spots. A position with LOS of the enemy would be nice, thanks.

If you want them to not deploy, you can add another waypoint and a pause. If they have another movement order to completely they can stay packed up, otherwise if they get to their ordered location they should just do the right thing, and 99 times out of 100 that is "deploy and go into action". Do I have to give the riflemen orders to insert a new magazine? No. They just do it because it is SOP and common sense and necessary to fighting at all. Should be the same with crew served weapons.

Less micromanagement is more strategy.

[JonS]

However, to prevent the gun from deploying too soon, have the target/area target command initiate the deploy command. This way you can move your gun into position and issue a target/Area Target command to begin deployment.

So as soon as they're set up they can start banging away rounds at nothing in particular? That doesn't sound like a very good idea.

[Apocal]

Am I really the only person who leaves his mortars undeployed to keep them from wasting rounds at random targets?

[Rocky Balboa]

I know I said this before but it bears repeating, wouldn't a target or area target command suffice to replace the deploy command?

You move and issue an area target/target command at the end of movement and this is an implied order that the weapon needs to deploy. If no target command is given then they stay un-deployed are not deployed.

Really annoying especially in WEGO to issue a target command only to see the weapon sit there because you forgot to order them to deploy.

[JonS]

I know I said this before but it bears repeating, wouldn't a target or area target command suffice to replace the deploy command?

You move and issue an area target/target command at the end of movement and this is an implied order that the weapon needs to deploy. If no target command is given then they stay un-deployed are not deployed.

So as soon as they're set up they can start banging rounds away at nothing in particular? That doesn't sound like a very good idea.

[Holman]

If you want them to not deploy, you can add another waypoint and a pause.

I know I said this before but it bears repeating, wouldn't a target or area target command suffice to replace the deploy command?

How do these involve less micromanagement than clicking "deploy" or not?

I really don't see the problem to which removing "deploy" is supposed to be a solution.

[agusto]

Do I have to give the riflemen orders to insert a new magazine? No. They just do it because it is SOP and common sense and necessary to fighting at all. Should be the same with crew served weapons.

Some crew served weapons have such a long deploy and undeploy time that having them set up accidentially (i.e. if they would deploy automatically and you forget to tell them not to do so) could lead to their loss. 88mm german flak gun has several minutes deploy/undeploy if i remember correctly, i really would not want them to start deploying without me explicitly telling them to do so. Admittably, you wont move a 88mm Fflak gun very often anyways due to its deploy time, but even the smaller Pak40 has a deploy time so long i wouldnt want it to start deplyoing without beeing ordered to do so. As i said in my previous post, i am absolutely against automatic deployment for weapons that take longer to deploy than 15-20 seconds. I am fine with current system.

BTW i think that in general beeing able to issue SOPs to troops would be a nice addition. You could have an option like 'deploy weapon when not moving yes/no.' or 'If fired on, reverse X meters/pop smoke/pop smoke and reverse X meters/stop/stop and pop smoke/' and so on.

[womble]

I've always wondered why this command was necessary, shouldn't any basically trained weapons crew automatically do this whenever they stop moving?

Why do we need to have additional micro management when the TacAI should be able to handle this?

Because if you are just pausing your team because they've come a long way and you don't quite know where they're actually going to settle, having to deploy, then undeploy could delay their arrival by as much as a minute for a mortar or HMG team. The TacAI can't identify when the "last waypoint plotted" is actually the last waypoint I'm going to plot for them before they will be re-employed. This goes especially for long packup time teams like ATGs with multi-minute takedown times.

[sburke]

For me this is one of those "depends on how you play the game". It has never phased me in the least, but I could see where it may bother some others. The problem I think from a technical standpoint is, it gets a deploy order option because it is a crew served weapon. Being a crew served weapon with a deploy order, it now gets a deploy time. So from the way it is coded, I think it would present BF with a quandry. To remove the deploy order means probably losing the deploy time. Is anyone in favor of that?

[JonS]

Do I have to give the riflemen orders to insert a new magazine? No. They just do it because it is SOP and common sense and necessary to fighting at all. Should be the same with crew served weapons.

Strangely enough, it is exactly the same with crew-served weapons - they will all just insert a new round/clip/belt whenever it is needed, with no instruction needed from the player.

[Wodin]

I just set my waypoints then on the last click the deploy button..not really much work and gives me a choice of deploying or not. Not keen on auto deploy idea.

[LukeFF]

It's fine as it is. Good grief, it's one button click.

[noob]

The fact that it has been in CMBN from the start, and this is the first time i've ever heard anyone complain about it speaks volumes.

[JasonC]

To those worried that your 88 FLAK is going to deploy on you, um, just what are you doing with your *undeployed* 88 FLAK?

To JonS and his snark - undeployed MGs don't fire. Soldiers stand around getting shot at and figure hey, we are supposed to be a piano moving service not soldiers, so let's do nothing about it.

The only reasonable objection I've heard is that people want to save mortar ammo by not having them pop off at random targets. But last I checked, nobody in real life said things like "oh no, don't put down that baseplate or attach that bipod, it might make you fire and we don't have much ammo. Keep them separated and delay any fire order a minute or so, because otherwise we might fire at unimportant targets. We will have time when the good ones come along - maybe." In other words, it is a patch on a bad default firing behavior. I thought that was why we had arcs. OK, I agree that is MM too, and not perfect. But not assembling the weapon after going into position - to save ammo? Really? In combat?

[womble]

I agree with the initial poster. I find this specific order incredibly annoying and fiddly. Half the time I can't tell from the interface whether they are currently under orders to deploy the weapon, or not.

I'll concur that there are problems with the UI for the command. Having to switch to the "Special" order tab and then squint at whether the "Deploy" icon is "bright" or not is, and always has been, really crap design. The flag on the unit info pane displaying its status should have a "deploying" state as well as "deployed" or "un/semi-deployed".

It is also annoying that they seem to exercise remarkably little "tac AI common sense" about deploy locations, interacting with the rough 8m action spots. A position with LOS of the enemy would be nice, thanks.

This is a separate issue to having to manually control the deployment state, surely? Giving the TacAI some idea about threat directions is probably a pretty big job, but would surely help avoid the need for adding "Face" commands alongwith "Deploy" ones, and it would help with other, higher level aspects too.