weapon2010 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 What was a crews standard role after their tank or gun is destroyed?retreat and stay alive to get another tank or gun?or goto a 3rd floor for an extra pair of eyes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It depends. Usually they were treated as valuable specialists and send to the rear, but sometimes they weren't. Most of the 17 Tigers in Sicily were blown up by their crews after they broke down, were bogged in the mud etc. The excess Tiger crews (remember they were the elite of the Panzerwaffe) were used as plain infantry at the Gerbini airfield despite the strongest argumentd from 2./s.Pz.Abt.504 commander. In fact the whole history of the Tigers in Sicily is one story of mismanagement or even utter incompetence. Italians, Russians, British and other nationalities have been maligned for shows of severe incompetence, but Germans were not free of them either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 What was a crews standard role after their tank or gun is destroyed?retreat and stay alive to get another tank or gun?or goto a 3rd floor for an extra pair of eyes? Typically after a crew bails out they are subject to some form of shock or confusion. Just getting out of the tank is a dicey affair. Sometimes, for example, if a Mark 4 has it's turret turned just the wrong way the skirt will block the driver and radioman's hatches from opening and they have to attempt to exit through the turret. After surviving the exiting of the vehicle the crew are almost always unarmed since the first reaction is to get out of the vehicle before suffering from a fiery death. Crews don't typically spend time taking weapons off the racks before getting out. In fact, I've read several accounts where a German tank commander gets tangled up in his throat mic and has a lot of difficulty bailing out because of it. One guy was even dangling on the side of the turret hanging by the throat mic while enemy infantry were shooting at him. That should give you some indication as to what tank crewmen's priorities are when bailing out of a tank. After a successful bailout, the crew will typically look to assist wounded crewmembers and then attempt to run for cover if there are any enemy infantrymen nearby. I've read one account of a driver who got out and it took several seconds before his comrades even realized that he was on fire! After reaching cover the crew almost always heads back to the workshop or company headquarters / rear area if possible. A particularly motivated commander may mount another vehicle if there is one nearby in order to continue command of his unit, but that's certainly not always going to be the case. This seems sensible to me because after surviving a near death experience it's probably not normal for a human being to put themselves right back into danger unless they are highly motivated. Incidentally, I've also never read of a situation where tank crewmen switch places to continue the fight after a penetrating hit kills a crewman. If a crewmember is killed and the other crewmembers notice it (from a penetrating hit) the tank will almost certainly retreat out of danger and possibly even return to the workshop where the tank is examined for damage and the body of the dead crewman is removed. Japanese tank crewmen, on the other hand, will not bail out of their tank if the tank is in direct LOS of the enemy even if the tank is on fire. If the tank breaks down or immobilizes out of the LOS of the enemy the crew will dismount the vehicle removing any MGs that can be carried and they will continue to advance as infantrymen. I have read some accounts of Japanese tank crew and they are in a class all by themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I recall a book on tank warfare in Vietnam. The author recalled flying in over an ARVN firebase under attack, he could immediately spot the lone American tank commander among the troops because he was the lanky white dude holding a pistol wearing nothing but boxer shorts and a helmet. I guess what an unhorse tank crew does all depends on the degree of motivation of the individual. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I recall a book on tank warfare in Vietnam. The author recalled flying in over an ARVN firebase under attack, he could immediately spot the lone American tank commander among the troops because he was the lanky white dude holding a pistol wearing nothing but boxer shorts and a helmet. I guess what an unhorse tank crew does all depends on the degree of motivation of the individual. Man I knew tankers were a different breed, but this is gonna make me think twice about looking into a hatch to see what they are doing inside... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I've read pretty much every possible variation you can imagine. During VERITABLE, crews of the South Alberta's stayed with their bogged vehicles for several days until they could be recovered, guarding their tank and especially their kit. During the battles north of Antwerp crews of the 9th RTR headed back to their designated squadron forward rally fairly quickly, except when they didn't. There's a story of one guy who spent about 6-8 hours going backwards and forwards from his KO'd tank to the RAP, back to his tank, over to another tank, back to the forward rally, back to his tank again, and then spending the night there with the remains of his crew. There's also a number of cases of crews staying with their KO'd and Immobed tanks. At least one member of the Sherwood Rangers charged forward with his crew into the teeth of battle when his tank was knocked out. That might be a special case, though, because when their DD tank sank on D-Day the choice was either heading for the beach or swimming back to Blighty And so on. Generally, though, accounts of battles with heavy tank cas - like GOODWOOD and JUPITER - are full of mentions of un-horsed crews making their way backwards as expeditiously as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 In "War without Garlands" I read an account where a light PAK (37mm or 50mm, can't remember) kept firing at the heavier Russian tanks. They couldn't destroy them. The gun crew had learned after one tank crew bailed out, after receiving 6-8+ hits, that the sound was so deafening they'd rather take their chances OUTSIDE the tank rather that sit inside. Evidently the gun crew had some success with this method. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 At least one member of the Sherwood Rangers charged forward with his crew into the teeth of battle when his tank was knocked out. That might be a special case... Ya, he played CMBN as a boy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I realise it's later, but the thread reminded me of this fella who changed tanks many times as they were KO'd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik mond Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 There's a series "greatest tank battles" that has been playing for a while now on the History channel. The episode for Kursk has a brief interview with a german vet who stated when their tank was disabled in the melee they dismounted with statchel charges and took up the fight on foot. Perhaps the context is lost in translation with these documentaries but thats what he said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Man I knew tankers were a different breed, but this is gonna make me think twice about looking into a hatch to see what they are doing inside... Hey, them tanks were cookers, he had his way of dealing with it. Now days it would not suprise me to think they have air conditioning in them:) Do They? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 There's a series "greatest tank battles" that has been playing for a while now on the History channel. The episode for Kursk has a brief interview with a german vet who stated when their tank was disabled in the melee they dismounted with statchel charges and took up the fight on foot. Perhaps the context is lost in translation with these documentaries but thats what he said. I'm betting it was further back to the Regimental laager (or wherever they picked up new rides) on the East Front than it was in Normandy... Operationally, you'd have to keep 'em further back wouldn't you, in such open country? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 There's a series "greatest tank battles" that has been playing for a while now on the History channel. The episode for Kursk has a brief interview with a german vet who stated when their tank was disabled in the melee they dismounted with statchel charges and took up the fight on foot. Perhaps the context is lost in translation with these documentaries but thats what he said. At Arnhem the 9th SS Pz Div created a whole battalion (granted it was a small battalion, and poorly equipped, but still) out of un-horsed crewmen. Appalling waste of training, but there weren't any tanks to give them, and the division desperately needed more shooters. However, these guys had lost their tanks in Normandy or on the way back across France, so it was days or weeks later that they went back into action as infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 John Johnson, I know that guy's story, and I think it was from "Greatest Tank Battles" and a book, but not one listed in the Wiki. A tremendous story! nik mond, Somehow, I have yet to see that episode. Some have been amazing. JonS, What a waste! Where'd that story come from? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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