Early war expansion?

[Darknight (DC)]

I am hoping that CMFI will have a module (and let it cover the whole time period) for the North African campaign... Rommel is waiting.

With the model that they have unveiled, I'm pretty sure that CMFI will NOT include North Africa.

On the bright side, I would suspect that North Africa will eventually be it's own 'family' of games, which is only proper, as each portion of that family could deal with the specific phases of that back-and-forth conflict.

[Michael Emrys]

I agree, but do Americans wargamers play only with U.S. troops ? Are they not interrested in other conflicts, different tactics etc.. ?

Since i started playing wargames i've been playing with samourais and roman legions, the american civil war, napoleonic wars etc...

Most of the time, wargamers are interrested in history too. That's the case for me and i guess also for american players, no ?

I'd say that is true of serious wargamers. Back during the decade of the '70s SPI used to publish an abundance of games on obscure topics, such as the Byzantine army, the Thirty Years War, the Punic Wars, and so forth. There was hardly any era of human armed conflict that didn't get covered. But as I say, this was for serious wargamers with a lively interest in many areas of history.

When wargaming moved onto computers, a large part of the audience was taken over by gamers—especially young ones—with little or no awareness or interest in history. About all they know is what they've seen in movies. Of necessity, game designers have to appeal to this audience since they are the ones who buy the most games. And the economics of game design and production have changed. During the '70s, printing was cheap enough that game designers could break even by selling to small niche audiences. That is no longer true. Paper games now cost about ten times as much as they did back in my day, and only the most committed devotees seem to play them. Computers games, in order to be affordable for a mass audience have to appeal to a mass audience. Because of large up-front capital outlays, game designers tend to be somewhat cautious in choosing which project to undertake. They mostly stay with the tried and true. While this may appear to be sensible, I have to wonder about that strategy, since that leaves them all competing for the same niche. A game company willing to strike out into a new area historically, and with the talent to pull it off, would have an open field until other companies began to take note, and because of their early start might continue to dominate that field.

Something like this could liven up the whole genre of wargames. If it were to come off, wargaming could get a lot more interesting in the coming decades.

Michael

[MikeyD]

There was criticism up above that for some people 'WWII' only means western Front 1944-45. You could expand that so say for some people 'tactical combat' only means WWII!... western front, 44-45. Its a shame that CM:Afghanistan was largely overlooked (though I hear it sold better than Steve had expected). I recall one poster didn't even realize the title involved the Russians! There's a few posters who continue to claim CM:Afghanistan was the best title they've produced. But WWII has its 'fan base', if its decent to describe a war having fans.

[womble]

Because of large up-front capital outlays, game designers tend to be somewhat cautious in choosing which project to undertake. They mostly stay with the tried and true. While this may appear to be sensible, I have to wonder about that strategy, since that leaves them all competing for the same niche. A game company willing to strike out into a new area historically, and with the talent to pull it off, would have an open field until other companies began to take note, and because of their early start might continue to dominate that field.

Something like this could liven up the whole genre of wargames. If it were to come off, wargaming could get a lot more interesting in the coming decades.

This malaise extends throughout the gaming sphere. If it's not "like WoW" the money men won't back an MMO. If it's not "like BF3", the beancounters won't back a shooter. Capital is even more risk-averse in the current economic climate; it'll be a while, I reckon, before anything really game-changing gets the green light.

[Michael Emrys]

But WWII has its 'fan base', if its decent to describe a war having fans.

Reminds me: Back in the mid-'70s a magazine began appearing that called itself World War II Enthusiast. It ran with that title for about three issues before changing its name to World War II Journal (no connection to the magazine that presently bears that title SFAIK). Someone may have whispered into the publisher/editor's ear suggesting that wrong conclusions might be drawn from the original title.

Michael

[DLaurier]

So lots of expansions coming out, but all for the later war years, how about France 40, Poland 39 etc? The one thing the CM series has never done is hit on the early war years, any chance they will?

I have only been asking for this since I first got a CM game (CMBB) back in the 1990s.

[DLaurier]

Ha ha! By coincidence I had joked earlier "I'll likely be dead" but neglected to hit the 'reply' button.

My standing joke is whatever the title is people will try to turn it into Normandy 1944. In CMBB they made 3rd party scenarios with lend-lease Shermans making believe they were in Normandy. Half the 3rd party CMAK scenarios were based in Normandy. I expect if we were to get a Poland invasion title people would be making etzats battles depicting Canadians fighting around Caen. The only title they don't seem to want to make Normandy scenarios in is CMBN!

Oddly enough I spent a few months trying to design a Dieppe '42 scenario with CMAK.

[cireland65]

Well now we have Russia 1944 coming out, can't say I am too excited. Would still like to see 39-40 represented as would a few players on The Blitz. I think a new era would end up in lots of sales as no one has really modeled it yet.

[Erwin]

Just curious, why will CMFI never do Africa? Or will the NA Theatre be a new family?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Just curious, why will CMFI never do Africa? Or will the NA Theatre be a new family?

They'll get there. At the rate they're putting out families, it might not be as long as we thought.

Well now we have Russia 1944 coming out, can't say I am too excited. Would still like to see 39-40 represented as would a few players on The Blitz. I think a new era would end up in lots of sales as no one has really modeled it yet.

Over the past year, they've talked like they will do Africa, which I am very happy about.

[Sequoia]

If they do, I would not be surprised if they handle North Africa like they're going to do with the Eastern Front: start with Tunisia and work backwards. Again it would make development faster as part of the work will already have been done for Fortress Italy.

[ckolonko]

I'd like to see a 'What if' addon based on what would have happened if the Battle of Britain had been a failure and the Germans had invaded Britain. It could include regular forces as well as the Home Guard and Auxiliary Units.

[Freyberg]

It would be extra cool if they did the Pacific theatre too...

[CanuckGamer]

I agree with you Freyberg about the Pacific theater. It would be something that was never done in the old Combat Mission series and would really be something new. Guadalcanal anyone!?!

[cireland65]

Pacific would be awesome!

[lurrp]

I'd just like to chime in and say that I would love an early war game/expansion, and would take that over the Bulge any day of the week. Probably North Africa too. The two most overrated campaigns of the war, IMO. Although I'm sure most here disagree.

[Baneman]

I too would take early war over Bulge, but (sigh) we have to go with the masses I guess.

Still, we can hope that in 3-4 years time, the theatre will be the only one left ...

[poesel]

I'm playing a blue on blue with mainly PzII Lynx on both sides. It is a blast! These tanks can shoot for minutes at each other before one goes down or - more likely - one retreats. This is soooo different from those one shot kills you get with the big guns. You even have time to bring in reinforcements in a tank duel.

Early war will be great! (for us )

[cireland65]

I have played light tank fights too, Stuarts vs PzIIs, and the Stuarts wipe the floor with the PzII.

[Baneman]

Off-topic, but on the subject of PzII's and other light vehicles, I have had great fun playing H2H "recce" QB battles using the following rules :

* Halftracks or Wheeled vehicles only ( eliminates Stuarts and PzII's, but I think it's best as Stuarts are likely to overpower everything else ).

* No arty ( on or off-map )

* No gun 50mm or larger ( keeps Pumas, Stummels and other Heavy AC's away )

* Infantry no more than half ( roughly ) of the points.

* Small battle (points-wise) on a Medium map ( so that actual recce needs to happen )

* Dawn or Dusk

They are a blast and usually produce extremely fast and furious action.

[lurrp]

Oh man, that sounds like a blast. I'll have to try that out ASAP. My favorite scenario in BfN is "Cats chasing Dogs", as I love the small scale recon action.

[Michael Emrys]

Probably North Africa too.

To my mind, NA is close to the perfect theater for CM. Complex terrain with lots of long sight lines, but with the possibility of some enemy lurking behind a ridge or in a wadi. A relatively small number of parent formations that have individual character that one can come to know and love, especially in the first year or two of the war there. And it covers a span of time when weapons and tactics were rapidly evolving, especially for the Allies. Seems like a natural for me.

Michael