cireland65 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So lots of expansions coming out, but all for the later war years, how about France 40, Poland 39 etc? The one thing the CM series has never done is hit on the early war years, any chance they will? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Nobody but BFC knows, and they aren't telling. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 An old post by Steve: Doing Western Front 1940 would be its own game. No Poland. Not enough similarities in the Germans for it to work, no similarities with the Poles. It would be too much work for the sales we could expect from it. We are interested in doing a Western Front 1940 game, but it's low priority due to the expected amount of sales from it compared to other things we could do with the same resources. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The Breaking Point: Sedan and the fall of France 1940. Slip a copy onto his nightstand, who knows maybe Western Front 1940 will jump the line like Italy did. Funny I have a copy and just checked if they happen to have for kindle - nope and the HC is 239 bucks. Thankfully Amazon is willing to buy my copy from me for $20. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'd like to see France '40 someday too but I expect they would do North Africa again first so I wouldn't even begin to anticipate it until maybe after that and they finish East Front '41 sometime in 2018 . Oh well, at least its more likely than the Pacific. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well lets see. There are already most German small arms that would be needed except maybe ATR. A good amount of German vehicles is also present (in terms of 3D-models) and could be used with a little bit of adjustment. Panzer IV already in Normandy (early short barreled versions required) Panzer III will come with CMFI. Panzer II chassis already there (Wepse) Panzer I would have to be newly made. Many German artillery pieces can be reused, many ACs too (with slight adjustments and new textures). German soldier models also wouldn't change a lot coming from summer 1944. Landscape could also be recycled from CMBN. Some of the French armor is alot like the new Italian tanks that we have already seen or might come with the "Odds 'n Sodds" module for CMBN. Also there are some good opportunities for modules (British and WSS forces, with a lot of the British stuff already in CMBN:CW). So all in all I'd say a France 1940 game would be very reasonable and I'd happy to buy it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well, it's not just vehicles and models, TO&E would have to be heavily redone for most units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Obviously. But I'd assume creating 3D-models and textures makes up a large slice of the work that has to be put into such a game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is the closest you will get to an early war mod for a long time if ever: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=105086 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artofwar Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Part of the reason for not doing these time periods may be because of the War Imbalance at that time what I mean is Poland was basically a push over along with France. France had better tanks but their tactics were lacking. Maybe the game creators are thinking of the realism vs time period. Like if they made a Poland scenario then you have German tanks on one side and Polish calvary troops and its a blood bath with no hope .. ok scenario over. Would have to have a lot of fictitious scenarios and a lot of people would freak out about it not being realistic. A WW1 scenario would have to be lots of infantry on both sides a blood bath where each side looses 80% plus of its infantry then somehow one side wins over the other. I much prefer the Quick Battles I design to where I have a company of infantry and a mortar and machine guns and they have 1 platoon ... lmao 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cireland65 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Part of the reason for not doing these time periods may be because of the War Imbalance at that time what I mean is Poland was basically a push over along with France. France had better tanks but their tactics were lacking. Maybe the game creators are thinking of the realism vs time period. Like if they made a Poland scenario then you have German tanks on one side and Polish calvary troops and its a blood bath with no hope .. ok scenario over. Would have to have a lot of fictitious scenarios and a lot of people would freak out about it not being realistic. A WW1 scenario would have to be lots of infantry on both sides a blood bath where each side looses 80% plus of its infantry then somehow one side wins over the other. I much prefer the Quick Battles I design to where I have a company of infantry and a mortar and machine guns and they have 1 platoon ... lmao Well the imbalance shouldn't be an issue for the game since most players just QB anyway and the French tanks are more then a match for the German. It would be no more unbalanced then the QBs where the German player always has panther and tiger tanks, I guess the only two tanks the Germans ever made I like the CMBN/CW game but I can't see myself buying the CMIT since it really is just the same thing (same tanks and infantry) with different scenery. And then they will come out with Africa, yet the same thing again so IMO a 1940 game would be totally different and worth the purchase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I agree with you general point (Poland and France were push-overs at the strategic and operational level, but CM is tactical, and tactically both France and Poland were quite tough for the Germans), but this ... I like the CMBN/CW game but I can't see myself buying the CMIT since it really is just the same thing (same tanks and infantry) with different scenery. ... is hopelessly off base. There is practically nothing the same between CMBN and CMFI in terms of units, vehicles, or formations. Yes, there is a "US Infantry Battalion" or a "US Parachute Battalion" in both CMFI and CMBN, but the weapons, vehicles, and organisation are quite different between the two games. Same for the Germans. Even the soldier models are different. And as for the Italians ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I would certainly love ANY early war scenario. I'm particularly interested in Case Yellow, but I'd take anything. These are scenarios barely depicted in PC games and that makes them specially attractive to me. After playing so many many games of diferent genres with the same settings once and again, I'm really eager to explore less exploited theaters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I like the CMBN/CW game but I can't see myself buying the CMIT since it really is just the same thing (same tanks and infantry) with different scenery. IMO, this is also a pretty big understatement. This "different scenery" completely changes the way the game plays. You have way longer lines of sight. You have way more and more significant elevation changes. Tanks and AFVs have way greater freedom of maneuver with no bocage. It is not merely a cosmetic difference. I noticed this while playtesting my own campaign even--I was able to use tactics that I hadn't even envisioned while designing the maps because I was so used to Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Part of the reason for not doing these time periods may be because of the War Imbalance at that time what I mean is Poland was basically a push over along with France. France had better tanks but their tactics were lacking. Would have to have a lot of fictitious scenarios and a lot of people would freak out about it not being realistic. I much prefer the Quick Battles I design to where I have a company of infantry and a mortar and machine guns and they have 1 platoon ... lmao Nah think of the opportunities here!- Arras - German tanks units getting overrun by the 1940 version of the KV, the Matilda French Spahis giving even Rommels men a bloody fight The British defenses around Dunkirk The tank battles of the 3rd and 4th Pz around Gembloux GrossDeutschland at Stonne Tons of great historical material 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yep. SL and ASL managed to make several modules that covered the early war years, so I doubt it's potential lack of decent and balanced scenarios that's holding BFC back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artofwar Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah I think Sburke and others hit the nail on the head seems like all we do is play the same time period from a different angle (game or game type or upgrade or graphic improvement) We need those time periods we ready for them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Underestimating the Poles is foolish too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mokra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Szack The Poles had several victories during the German invasion and Polish weapons and vehicles were usually on par with German ones. Polish infantry squads, while large, were actually fairly well armed and more than a match for their German equivalents. Browning Automatic Rifles (yes, BAR's) were actually issued to every squad giving them some stopping power for 1939 especially. Anti tank rifles were also common and at the time could knock out most German tanks in the field. The Polish tanks were actually quite decent too, the 7TP could take on any German tank with ease and the TKS tankette was a solid match for the Panzer I. The Polish cavalry are also heavily underestimated, most Polish cavalry units fought as mobile infantry, which was highly effective in undeveloped areas and scored many local victories against isolated German units. Poland certainly was steamrolled, but in Combat Mission, a German unit from 1939 would be fairly equal to a Polish unit of equal size in terms of efficiency and the Poles would certainly pose a formidable adversary. The cause of so many Polish casualties was their lack of a sizable air force, capable of taking on the Luftwaffe. Even with such superiority, the Luftwaffe lost 25% of its aircraft during the invasion. http://www.hetmanusa.org/engarticle2.html Just an interesting read for those interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Let's not forget the possibilty of making fictional succesfull sea lion scenarios and campaigns. Fighting them in the fields and streets and hills! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This is an important point to remember for this particular part of the war - it was the German strategy that had the Allies flailing around impotently (also the natural friction of different nationalities with different priorities and an arcane game plan) however on the odd occasions they managed to get to grips with the Germans, they often gave a good account of themselves. The actual equipment was not that bad (we'll skip over the Matilda Mk I) it was the command and control at brigade and above level that reall sucked, but this is the level that you will not have to worry about in CM2 - of course if you wanted to you could readily simulate this element of the Battle of France by having a French battery - all limbered up and in column of route - heading to set up in a field which has a company of German infantry already deployed there. A workable simile for our North American cousins would be that the Allied Defense was set out to stop the run but the German QB decided to go to the air - and at that point in time nobody on our side had hears of the Blitz Defense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cireland65 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I agree with you general point (Poland and France were push-overs at the strategic and operational level, but CM is tactical, and tactically both France and Poland were quite tough for the Germans), but this ... ... is hopelessly off base. There is practically nothing the same between CMBN and CMFI in terms of units, vehicles, or formations. Yes, there is a "US Infantry Battalion" or a "US Parachute Battalion" in both CMFI and CMBN, but the weapons, vehicles, and organisation are quite different between the two games. Same for the Germans. Even the soldier models are different. And as for the Italians ... Did I miss something? Allies have Shermans and cruiser tanks, Germans have PzII/III/IV/V and you get the garbage Italian stuff. I am not talking about game play and scenery itself, just units. It would be nice to have a Char-B go up against a Pz35t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 below is the published list of units, vehicles and weapons in CMFI. I have helpfully bolded the ones that are not in CMBN or CMBN:CW for you: German Major Formations Panzer Grenadier Battalion (1942 type, motorized) Panzer Aufklärungs Battalion (motorized) Pionier Battalion (motorized) Panzer Battalion (3 Pz IV companies) Mixed Panzer Battalion (1 Pz IV company, 2 Pz III companies) Heavy Panzer Company (Tigers) Sturmgeschutz Company Panzerjäger Company Italian Major Formations Infantry Battalion Blackshirt Battalion Machinegun Battalion Antitank Battalion (Cannone da 47/32) Pioneer Company Assault and Landing Battalion (motorized) Guastatori Battalion (motorized) Bersaglieri Battalion (Truck) Armored Car Battalion Tankette Battalion Machinegun Battalion (motorized) Light Tank Battalion (L5 tank) Light Tank Battalion (R35 tank) Tank Destroyer Battalion (Semovente 47/32) Tank Destroyer Battalion (Semovente 90/53) Self-Propelled Artillery Battalion (Semovente 75/18) United States Major Formations Infantry Battalion Armored Infantry Battalion Ranger Battalion Parachute Battalion Engineer Battalion Armored Engineer Battalion Cavalry Reconnaissance Troop Armored Reconnaissance Battalion Medium Tank Battalion Light Tank Battalion German Tanks Tiger Early Pz IV Late Pz IV Latest Pz IV H Early Pz III M Pz III N Marder II StuG IIIF/8 StuG IIIG Earliest StuG IIIG Early StuH 42 Early German Vehicles Grille Ausf. H Wespe PSW 221 PSW 222 PSW 223 PSW 231 PSW 233 Kubelwagon Opel Blitz Protze 70 German Halftracks Sdkfz 250/1 Alt Halftrack Sdkfz 250/3 Alt Halftrack Sdkfz 250/10 Alt Halftrack Italian Tanks Renault R-35 L5/21 L5/30 L3/33 L3/35 Semovente 90/53 Semovente 75/18 M41 Semovente 75/18 M42 Semovenete 47/32 Carro Comando M41 Carro Comando M42 Italian Vehicles AB 41 AS.42 (Cannone da 47/32) AS.42 (Breda 20mm AA) AS.42 (2x Breda 8mm) AS.42 (Solothurn ATR) Fiat 626 NM American Tanks M4 Sherman Early M4 Sherman Mid M4A1 Sherman Early M4A1 Sherman Mid M5A1 Stuart American Halftracks T30 HMC Halftrack M3 GMC Halftrack M2 Halftrack M3 Halftrack (1x M1919) M3 Halftrack (2x M1919) M3 Halftrack (1x M2HB) M4A1 Halftrack American Vehicles M7 HMC Priest M3A1 White Scout Car Jeep Jeep MMG Jeep HMG 2.5 Ton Truck German Large Guns/Mortar (on map) 81mm GrW 34 Mortar 50mm PaK 38 75mm PaK 40 76mm PaK 36R 88mm Flak 36 75mm leIG 18 150mm sIG 33 Italian Large Guns/Mortar (on map) 45mm Brixia M35 Light Mortar 81mm Mortaio da 81/14 Modello 35 Mortar 47mm Cannone da 47/32 M35 65mm Cannone da 65/17 M13 American Large Guns/Mortars (on map) 60mm M2 Mortar 81mm M1 Mortar 37mm M3 57mm M1 75mm M1A1 Pack Howitzer German Small Arms KAR 98K KAR 98K (Schiessbecher Grenade Launcher) KAR 98K Sniper MP40 MG34 MG42 MG34 P38 Italian Small Arms M1891 rifle Beretta M38 M1934 Breda M30 Breda M37 American Small Arms M1 Garand M1903A3 M1903A3 (with M1 Grenade Launcher) M1903A4 Sniper M1 Carbine M1A1 Carbine M1A1 Thompson M1919A4 M1917A1 M2HB M1911A1 Air Support (Various loadouts) German BF-109G6 BF-109G6/U4 FW-190A5 American A-20G Havoc A-36A Apache P-40F Warhawk Artillery Support German 81mm sGrw 34 Mortar 120mm sGrw 42 Mortar 75mm leIG 18 Infantry Gun 150mm sIG 33 Infantry Gun 75mm FK 38 Field Gun 170mm K 18 Cannon 105mm sK 18 Cannon 105mm leFH 18 Howitzer 150mm sFH 18 Howitzer 210mm Mrs 18 Howitzer 105mm Wespe 150mm Grille 88mm Flak 36 Flak (as indirect artillery support) 150mm Nebelwerfer 41 Rocket 280mm Nebelwerfer 41 Rocket 210mm Nebelwerfer 42 Rocket 300mm Nebelwerfer 42 Rocket Italian 81mm M35 Mortar 47mm Cannone da 47/32 Gun 65mm Cannone da 65/17 Gun 75mm Obice da 75/18 Howitzer 75mm Cannone da 75/27 Gun 100mm Obice da 100/17 Howitzer 105mm Cannone da 105/28 Gun 149mm Obice da 149/13 Howitzer 149mm Cannone da 149/35 Gun 90mm Cannone da 90/53 (as indirect artillery support) American 60mm M2 Mortar 81mm M1 Mortar 4.2in M2 Mortar 155mm M1A1 Long Tom 75mm M1A1 Pack Howitzer 75mm T30 HMC 105mm M2A1 Howitzer 105mm M7 HMC Priest 155mm M1 Howitzer US Navy Destroyer (various calibers) US Navy Light Cruiser (various calibers) You're welcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 KAR 98K (Schiessbecher Grenade Launcher) Cool comparison, Jon. I notice you didn't bold this one, and it's something I've occasionally felt the lack of in German squads (having seen the usefulness of the American M1/M1 combo from both sides. I'd assumed that the Panzerfaust had superceded the grenade launcher attachment and am now wondering what formations retained their Shiessbechers. Is it something that came in CW (which I don't yet have) or is it just a rare item for BN formations that I've just not seen? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Artofwar, At the tactical level, Poland is NOT a pushover. The Poles punished the Germans severely, notably in city fighting and at the Bzura River. Also suggest you read about the Polish Air Force, which did severe damage to the Luftwaffe and made the Wehrmacht unhappy. The Polish cavalry thing is German propaganda. What isn't propaganda is that Polish cavalry caught German infantry on the hop and did a lot of damage. Suggest you watch "Great Tank Battles" episode covering Stonne and other engagements. May give you a whole new perspective on French armor and combat spirit. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Is it something that came in CW (which I don't yet have) or is it just a rare item for BN formations that I've just not seen? IIRC this is already present in CMBN base game although not as common as the US gl. As is the Priest which JonS has highlighted in bold. I think it just goes to show how spoiled we are already that there are bits and pieces in CMBN that we don't even realise we have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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