Bailing Out of Tanks... Don't do this by mistake

[Rake]

I have an issue in a scenario that I’m playing against the AI. I have a Panther in full view of enemy infantry that, mistakenly, I hit the “I” key from the “Special” command screen in the UI. This gave the Panther crew a “Bail Out” command. My intent was to issue a “Quick” movement… the “I” key from the movement screen. The tank is currently providing cover fire for infantry preparing to assault, so there’s no way I want the crew to jump out of the vehicle

Unfortunately, there appears no way to undo the Bail Out command once it’s issued. The “Dismount”, “Bail Out”, “Open Up” and “Acquire” commands all grey out and are no longer selectable. Nor do the keyboard commands work to undo the erroneous order. I’ve upgraded to 1.10, I don’t know if this happened previously under the original game.

The good news is that, playing against the AI, I normally save most of my turns. I do this because there are several items in the game, like vehicle pathing, that cause heartburn when they arise. But, to correct things like this, it means having to go back to a previous save, reissue the intended orders and replay the turn. I really don’t like having to do this because it seems like I’m changing the game. I have this sense that I’ve cheated against the AI by replaying a turn when I’m simply trying to correct a problem in the game.

Although I don’t post often, I’m often lurking. I likely spend more time reading the forum than I actually spend playing CMBN. I have not seen this issue addressed previously. A search of the forum for “Bail Out” brings up so many hits with the word “Out” to be of use and most of the hits for “Bail “have to do with bailing away from guns or bailing out of bunkers. My apologies if this is an issue previously discussed, but I have not seen it before, nor do I have the time to search the many posts with the words bail or out to find this particular case.

I hope this is a bug. If it’s a feature, it seems a bit silly. This particular tank is the HQ tank. I don’t think the tank commander would order the driver to move the tank quickly to a new location and then join the rest of the crew while they jump out and run to the new action spot while the tank sits behind. In the scenario that I’m playing, I’m already up against the clock… playing WeGo, this means I’ve lost two more minutes while the crew jumps out, runs around a bit and, if they luckily survive, get back in the tank and move to the intended spot.

I really think CMBN is the best game out there and 95% of the time it’s very enjoyable to play. This is just one of those WTF moments that make me walk away for a bit. It’s also one of the reasons that I’m hesitant to play against human opponents… I’d be livid if this happened in a FTF game.

Sorry for the long rant.

Edit: Actually, it is the "K" key that's involved here, not the "I" key. I'd originally given a Hunt (K) command, then changed it to a Quick move.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Dismount and Bail Out commands cannot be cancelled once issued, even in WEGO. I don't know why it's like that, but it's been that way forever so it's probably not a bug.

IMO it's just one more reason to use the alternative hotkey file, where Quick is mapped to Q.

[xian]

Yup - i've done that. That's why I've removed the hot-key for bail out completely.

[Chek]

You generally only do it once.

I've also had crews panic and bail out on the odd occasion.It 's great to be able to put them back in once they've calmed down a bit,assuming the vehicle is still functioning of course.

I hit a hundred posts and don't feel like a true lurker anymore,but you the real thing.

[mjkerner]

Fortunes of war, I guess. When those funky things happen, that how I view them so that I don't get upset.

As for the wrong order, the game of course has no way of knowing which ones you mean, and which you don't. It would be nice to have an"undo" button.

[Baneman]

Yep, the same applies to the artillery commands - in WeGo, even if you have not hit the End Turn button, hitting Confirm for an artillery command locks you into that order, so even if you realise you've targetted the wrong hill or somesuch, all you can do is Cease Fire and wait another turn.

IMO, no orders should be "locked in" until you press the End Turn button. But that's just me, maybe there's some reason BF feel it should be like it is.

But as far as BailOut goes, I can only add my recommendation to using the Alternative Hotkeys so that there are no key duplications. Making it so you can only issue Bail Out by physically clicking on the GUI button helps more too, as Xian says.

[Rake]

But as far as BailOut goes, I can only add my recommendation to using the Alternative Hotkeys so that there are no key duplications. Making it so you can only issue Bail Out by physically clicking on the GUI button helps more too, as Xian says.

It has taken so long for me to get the hotkeys down that I'm skeptical about changing to the Alternative Hotkeys now that I know the standard ones (for the most part). :eek:

Yup - i've done that. That's why I've removed the hot-key for bail out completely.

I've gone into the hotkey text file, but I can't figure out how to remove the hotkey for bail out without removing the K completely :confused:

[Rake]

Yep, the same applies to the artillery commands - in WeGo, even if you have not hit the End Turn button, hitting Confirm for an artillery command locks you into that order, so even if you realise you've targetted the wrong hill or somesuch, all you can do is Cease Fire and wait another turn.

At least with artillery, there are several steps before you've locked in the order. With Bail Out, one wrong keystroke or a click in the wrong spot and you're screwed.

[xian]

It has taken so long for me to get the hotkeys down that I'm skeptical about changing to the Alternative Hotkeys now that I know the standard ones (for the most part). :eek:

I've gone into the hotkey text file, but I can't figure out how to remove the hotkey for bail out without removing the K completely :confused:

Yup - remove the K.

Here's a portion of my file (notice nothing in Bail Out - if I need to Bail Out I use the UI menu):

<E>/ // deploy

<E>P // pause

<E>H // hide

<E>[ // dismount

<E> // bail out

<E>] // vehicle open up

[Sergei]

I've gone into the hotkey text file, but I can't figure out how to remove the hotkey for bail out without removing the K completely :confused:

You can wipe out the relative key and make K a direct key for the corresponding movement order. By default G is used for Face order and I don't think there's a corresponding order in the Admin tab.

But it's better to go non-relative so you don't have to muck about with the tabs, anyway. Then you can forget about changing between tabs or accidentally giving the wrong order.

[umlaut]

I don't know why it's like that, but it's been that way forever

Don´t think so: I´m pretty sure it could be cancelled in CMSF. Anyway, I must say that I think it is just plain stupid to make a command like that which cannot be cancelled. Especially, when you have designed a command system where pressing one key has radically different consequences depending on which order group happens to be active at the moment you press the key.

IMO it's just one more reason to use the alternative hotkey file, where Quick is mapped to Q.

I couldn´t agree more. Used it since my first erroneous "bail out" order.

[Vark]

I do hope the big thing in the pipe-work is a radical overhaul of the UI, it really is the achilles heel of the game.

[Rake]

I couldn´t agree more. Used it since my first erroneous "bail out" order.

After looking into changing the original text file and the alternative hotkeys, I decided to go with the latter. I may make some wrong keystrokes occasionally, but I won't be bailing out unless I want to... or forced to.

Thanks to all that have replied. It took about a dozen loads of various turns before I figured out what happened in the first place. It happened once earlier in the scenario and I never did figure it out at that point.

[JonS]

One thing that helps to get used to the alt file is remembering that the letter usually relates more directly to the action.

Most are obvious:

F for Fast

Q for Quick

Some are not so obvious, but are easy to remember once you get a mnemonic:

O for Orient (i.e. Face)

[Rake]

One thing that helps to get used to the alt file is remembering that the letter usually relates more directly to the action.

Most are obvious:

F for Fast

Q for Quick

Some are not so obvious, but are easy to remember once you get a mnemonic:

O for Orient (i.e. Face)

So far, the hardest part has been remembering that, to scroll around the map, the keys are I, J, K & L, not W, A, S & D

[Baneman]

So far, the hardest part has been remembering that, to scroll around the map, the keys are I, J, K & L, not W, A, S & D

You use keys to scroll around the map ?!

Once I learned the mouse-method ( left-click hold to move camera, right-click hold to swing ), I've never looked back.

[Rake]

You use keys to scroll around the map ?!

Once I learned the mouse-method ( left-click hold to move camera, right-click hold to swing ), I've never looked back.

I use my mouse, but the hotkeys give a little finer control... especially when I'm zooming in

[dakuth]

The "alternative" keys are actually the "sane" keys. Relative key mapping is some of the most ass-backwards way of controlling a game I have *ever* seen (in about 20 years of gaming.) And it's default?!?

I have started a really long document on all the short-comings of CM:BN's UI issues, and how they could be fixed. The NUMBER ONE was this "the same keys-mean-different-things-depending-on-the-tab" craziness. That's when I discovered you could change to "alternate" keymapping style. I pretty much stopped on the document, because it was just a GIANT relief to be able to have sane keymapping I was willing to overlook the hundred other questionable decisions.

Change to alternate keymapping. Do it NOW. It doesn't matter if you're used to the madness that is relative. You know how it took you a week to get used to relative, and even now you often make a mistake? With the alternative you'll adjust within the time of a *single battle* and never look back.

[Michael Emrys]

The "alternative" keys are actually the "sane" keys. Relative key mapping is some of the most ass-backwards way of controlling a game I have *ever* seen (in about 20 years of gaming.) And it's default?!?

Heh. Couldn't agree more. I switched to the "Sane" (good name, BTW) mapping before I even played my first game, since I could make utterly no sense of relative keying. I do understand that for RT players the relative keying is a bit handier for rapidly giving orders, but for me as a WG player, it just looked like a minefield of confusion and mis-control.

Michael

[Glukx Ouglouk]

One thing that helps to get used to the alt file is remembering that the letter usually relates more directly to the action.

Most are obvious:

F for Fast

Q for Quick

Some are not so obvious, but are easy to remember once you get a mnemonic:

O for Orient (i.e. Face)

Not to mention that it's easy to figure out mnemonics that work better for you and change the keys used if you don't like the default. For instance, I use K for Smoke, because it somehow makes sense for me.

The "alternative" keys are actually the "sane" keys. Relative key mapping is some of the most ass-backwards way of controlling a game I have *ever* seen (in about 20 years of gaming.) And it's default?!?

I couldn't agree more. The relative shortcuts aren't just hard to remember (you need to remember the position of the buttons, instead of remembering pretty simple mnemonics) , they also mean that you have to know in which tab you are, and use another shortcut to change tab if needed, so they waste your time... Relative keyboard shortcuts just don't make any sense when you can avoid them.

[xian]

Yup - I use K for smoke too.

[dakuth]

In case anyone is wondering: the manual provides instructions on how to set up relative keymapping.

[JonS]

Yup - I use K for smoke too.

Ditto ... I think. I rely on muscle memory a lot now, and have forgotten many of the specific mappings.

[Lt Belenko]

Very odd thing for Germans to do. If they were British we could assume it was tea time. ... We've all done this mistake