xian Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have only a passing knowledge of WWII history, and I was wondering what on earth would be included in the 'Market Garden' module that isn't already in CMBN once the CW module is released? As far as I can recall Market Garden forces included: Polish paratroopers (CW module?), British paratroopers (CW), XXX Corps (Base + CW), US infantry & engineers (Base), Waffen SS (CW), Hitler Youth (??), Regular German units (CW), Artillery assets for both sides (Base +CW) Am I missing something? Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the operation could enlighten me? Or perhaps the next module will just include new missions and campaigns? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have only a passing knowledge of WWII history, and I was wondering what on earth would be included in the 'Market Garden' module that isn't already in CMBN once the CW module is released? As far as I can recall Market Garden forces included: Polish paratroopers (CW module?), British paratroopers (CW), XXX Corps (Base + CW), US infantry & engineers (Base), Waffen SS (CW), Hitler Youth (??), Regular German units (CW), Artillery assets for both sides (Base +CW) Am I missing something? Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the operation could enlighten me? Or perhaps the next module will just include new missions and campaigns? At least German paratroops will be in the Market Garden. Lufwaffe units in CW are only field division units 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Urban terrain such as half-destroyed, multi-storied buildings (some walls standing, etc.), and a lot of funky German TO&E's covering SS training schools, Kriegsmarine units and the like. And windmills! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Some additional terrain types, dikes and polder ..... Also following the breakout and the pursuit across France, their were some changes to the TO&E of several formations .... Overall a good question, I have wondered for some time what BF will put in the MG module to make it worthy of another $35.00 .... We shall see ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Assuming the "Market Garden" module is intended to expand the game to cover ETO combat in general through September, 1944, and not just the units specifically involved in Operation Market Garden, there are a fair number of less common vehicles that could still be included, especially on the German side. Off the top of my head, one major Allied vehicle that makes it in once we expand the timeframe a bit is the M18 Hellcat. As noted, there's also plenty of new terrain & buildings that could be added. Much of this stuff might not add much in the way of new tactical options (though polder especially has some unique attributes), but would certainly add geographical flavor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futon river crossing Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Covered amour arcs for instance - flame throwers, all the new bugs from CW ironed out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmox Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 my kingdom for a M36 them cats wont be so sure of themselves with a few jacksons around:) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What is left to do once CW is released? Play it! ... and have fun doing so!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The M36 was just beginning to reach frontline combat units in September 1944... I think whether or not we see it in the Market Garden Module depends on where BFC puts the date cutoff for the module. If they make a hard cutoff at the end of September once Market Garden proper was over, then we might not see it. However, given that the next game family is Battle of the Bulge, BFC might choose to have the MG module expand the date coverage up though October or November, so that there is no gap between the end of the CMBN family, and the beginning of the CMBotB Family. In this case, we would almost certainly see the M36. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 M18 Hellcat, M24 Chaffee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think Market Garden actually needs to cover the autumn/early winter (Pre Bulge) campaign on the Siegfried Line. Personally I think Siegfried Line (aka Hanging out the Washing) would be a better title than Market Garden, I would rather see the next two or three games as expansions to Normandy covering the rest of the NW European Campaign. No need to reinvent the wheel which you could better achieve in future releases covering the Russian Front, Mediterranean and early Blitzkrieg campaigns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 ...the Russian Front, Mediterranean and early Blitzkrieg campaigns. While not disagreeing with you, I recall that BFC was pretty adamant about there being no Mediterranean game this time around and doing the early war was unlikely. On the other hand, if it could be shown that there was sufficient demand for such games, they might change their minds. 'Sufficient demand' being defined as several thousand players willing to commit to paying up front. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 While not disagreeing with you, I recall that BFC was pretty adamant about there being no Mediterranean game this time around and doing the early war was unlikely. On the other hand, if it could be shown that there was sufficient demand for such games, they might change their minds. 'Sufficient demand' being defined as several thousand players willing to commit to paying up front. Michael Also, they may allow 3rd party programmers to build some of those other theaters, a la CM:Afghanistan. Lucas, IIRC, Siegfried Line will be covered in the Bulge Game Family, since fall/winter conditions and terrain will be needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Though the earlier Siegfried Line battles around Stolberg, Aachen and earlier operations in the Hurtgen Forest should be possible with the introduction of new organisations like the Volksgrenadiers. This part of the campaign might cover the September and October time frame. The November Offensive might be a Bulge option or it might be included with Market Garden if they stick with the 3 month format. Covering the forgotten campagns to clear the Scheldt, Overloon and the Channel Ports would be good particularly if they could find a ay to do "funnies" like the flail tanks which would be really nice although maybe hard to program and get the graphics right, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It will be interesting to see how BFC handles all the motley assortments of depleted German units that got thrown together to make the ad-hoc battle groups in OMG. Actually, they happened in so many different ways that it might just be best to help players with a good manual section that gives good historical OOB info, and explains how to create, say, a Luftwaffe "stomach and ear" company or a Security company using the various options for equipment and soft factors already in the editor. To me, the most important part of the OMG module would be any terrain and building changes needed to make Holland maps play realistically and be as authentic-looking as the ones we can make now for Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 German side as far as vehicles we could be seeing the Hetzer and Nashorn and maybe some new halftrack variants. Allied side we might also see the Sherman Jumbo and Challenger. The Fallshirmjaegers should bring some Recoilless Rifles with them. Also if they have ground to air coded by then-which imho is more likely then fire- we could have all sorts of new stuff like Wirblewinds and quad halftracks not to mention aa arty pieces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It will be interesting to see how BFC handles all the motley assortments of depleted German units that got thrown together to make the ad-hoc battle groups in OMG. Actually, they happened in so many different ways that it might just be best to help players with a good manual section that gives good historical OOB info, and explains how to create, say, a Luftwaffe "stomach and ear" company or a Security company using the various options for equipment and soft factors already in the editor. To me, the most important part of the OMG module would be any terrain and building changes needed to make Holland maps play realistically and be as authentic-looking as the ones we can make now for Normandy. I hope they implement the option in the editor to simply add a squad or even a platoon to a formation from the "Specialist Team" section. I like the current Formation system, but when you simply want to add a platoon of Sherman's or a pioneer squad, it's a little unwieldy. And that option would almost be a necessity with the German Orbat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 German side as far as vehicles we could be seeing the Hetzer and Nashorn and maybe some new halftrack variants. Allied side we might also see the Sherman Jumbo and Challenger. The Fallshirmjaegers should bring some Recoilless Rifles with them. Also if they have ground to air coded by then-which imho is more likely then fire- we could have all sorts of new stuff like Wirblewinds and quad halftracks not to mention aa arty pieces. Amen to AAA, especially for use in ground combat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm still wondering how they will handle some one having the Market Garden module but not the Commonwealth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Market Garden will add a month to the title which for the American side will push the fighting into Hurtgen forest territory. Lets not forget modules aren't just the equipment, there's the scenarios and campaigns too. Some might say they're primarily the scenarios and campaigns. If Commonwealth perhaps doubles the number of scenarios avaliable to play, Market Garden will probably do the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Guy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I thought that additional modules will not include any additional terrain? Units - YES Scenarios/campaigns - YES Terrain - NO UI upgrades (including armour arcs) - NO New types of unit behavior (e.g. Flamethrowers) - NO Weather (e.g. Snow) - NO So, I am also a little confused as to what beyond a few additional units, MG will introduce. Maybe they can combine MG and Odd & Sods into one for a richer module and get on to the next family of games sooner. Not sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Now l know what l need on the battle field. The german mortar halftrack. Radio and alot of granaten. Optimum. Sdkfz 251/2 and 250/7 - Schützenpanzerwagen (Granatwerfer). 81 mm Mortar carrier 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Market Garden will add a month to the title which for the American side will push the fighting into Hurtgen forest territory. Lets not forget modules aren't just the equipment, there's the scenarios and campaigns too. Some might say they're primarily the scenarios and campaigns. If Commonwealth perhaps doubles the number of scenarios avaliable to play, Market Garden will probably do the same. The Heurtgen campaign lasted from September 1944 to February 1945. So the BFC version will just show the opening moves. Denser Fog than currently exists may prove necessary. It's sobering to remember that both Market Garden and the Huertgen Forest are widely considered Allied defeats. But that may not bother, uh, certain posters to this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Fire or is that going to be in Bulge? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Steve has said Market Garden will include new Dutch terrain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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