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Falaise

hummm patche 4, I need your opinion

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Bah alors du coup, c'est assez simple...

This is the sound a frenchman makes when he gives an explaination.

You can select the Axis and Allied Friendly Map Edge setting in Mission > Data. They are located near the bottom of the list of settings.

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ah ah merci

ok  vue !!!

not everything is in order
since I'm the only one to have this problem and it's systematic
I tested another scenario the same problem appears and i do not wait long it happens all the time
I think there is a problem loading
I will reinstall everything

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Falaise said:

since I'm the only one to have this problem and it's systematic

You're not the only one. Decided to run CMBN to see the patch in action. Started scenario 18 Platoon as Allied/Iron/WEGO. My very first contact resulted in a Green team (2 Section - B Detachment) running through a break in the hedges towards the enemy side (south) rather than towards my side (north) if I understand @Xorg_Xalargsky description of possible causes. This team had been hiding the previous turn behind the hedgerow facing south (having approached from the north). I simply toggled to unhide. Started receiving fire from the south on playback...

It was only rattled suffering no losses until it decided to run towards the MG fire through a nearby gap. Now, in the open, needless to say - they were quickly reduced to one man. At which point, this lone survivor changed his direction of flight to the north, back through the hedgerow gap (their flight had originally taken), and continued to run away out of sight of incoming fire.

So, this being a test case for me, I'm not sure what to make of it. I'd been spending my time evaluating changes in CMBS where my impression was a positive one.

With CMBN, I don't know. I have the save and have looked at this scenario to determine 'friendly map edge'. It does show properly (Allied-North vs Axis-South).

 

Edited by Howler

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Posted (edited)

Wow.....I just found it in spades!  :o

It occurred to me that the fights I'd been having were from a campaign that I started pre-patch.....So I started a fresh scenario just to reassure myself that everything really was OK.

Sadly it isn't.....This really does seem to be a big problem! 

Going to test some more scenarios, but what I just saw was scary.....Way worse than anything I ever saw pre-patch!  :unsure:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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Ouch
Honestly, I will have preferred to be the only one !!
 reinstall and that everything is good
the film is significant of what I see
the most surprising is when the two opposing teams are moving at the same time towards each other in the same field

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Posted (edited)

Most odd - Just played Buying the Farm (patched Mac version) and everyone seemed to go back towards their own lines when bug out AI intervened - though an Allied HQ I placed right at the back did creep forward when shot at from down the road - I put it down to them having nowhere else to go. Axis troops what I could see when shot up during and after the battle doing nothing noticeably weird.

Edited by Wicky

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Posted (edited)

Replaying at 7:28 of CW 18 Platoon as reported previously resulted in the team in question not being spotted at all. Another replay saw them shot later in the turn resulting in the same behavior but leaving 2 men healthy. Then I noticed a team on my left flank which was slowly moving up (a series of hunt + 10s pause) all of a sudden bolt towards the open when fire was exchanged with another unit in an adjacent AS. I decided to call it a day as this last was a completely new development occurring only in the fourth replay. By replay I mean load save then generate the turn without altering orders/waypoints.

Every flight in this scenario seems to take the unit towards the enemy.

Under 4.00 stock (no mods) this scenario takes 1:20 to generate (WEGO/Iron). Under 4.01 modded - it takes 2:00 to generate. To load the save being used as a test case to report this issue - it takes 2:15 to load.

I'll take a break to regain some perspective...

Edited by Howler

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2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Wow.....I just found it in spades!  :o

It occurred to me that the fights I'd been having were from a campaign that I started pre-patch.....So I started a fresh scenario just to reassure myself that everything really was OK.

Sadly it isn't.....This really does seem to be a big problem! 

Going to test some more scenarios, but what I just saw was scary.....Way worse than anything I ever saw pre-patch!  :unsure:

I have already seen this in CMBN before the patch trying to replicate what was observed in this thread:

It was rare but I was seeing this from time to time.

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On 5/8/2019 at 10:31 PM, Falaise said:

As soon as a squad is located adjacent to a passage in a hedge as soon as it undergoes losses it rushes in the passage and is found to discovered
the test was done only on "roadblock"
Your turn to try

I tried this with one US Squad in Roadblock. I had them go "Quick" up to the gap in the hedgerow at "Overwatch"  so that they would attract attention, rather than use "Move", Hunt" or "Slow". Once they came under fire I issued no other orders for the entire battle. They stayed by the gap, and even tried to fight back when they weren't cowering. At NO point did they run either through the gap towards the Germans, or run away back towards their own lines. By the end of the battle they had been reduced to just 3 men, and their moral status was ""Nervous".

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40 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

They stayed by the gap, and even tried to fight back when they weren't cowering. At NO point did they run either through the gap towards the Germans, or run away back towards their own lines.

That matches my experiences in the campaign (& generally prior to today), but in the scenario I tested today, the behaviour was almost universal.....A mortar round landed amongst several squads, set up to test the issue.  They ALL ran through the gap in the hedge, none ran any other direction (such as toward the fairly solid looking house & barn directly behind them).  :o

Genuinely don't know what to think right now.  :unsure:

Is this issue limited only to bocage or does the same happen with tall hedges & walls?

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frankly for me it's systematic !
I did not complain about version 4 before patch because this behavior was very rare and often partly explainable.
But since the patch it'is unplayable
as soon as the unit comes into combat, in one or two rounds, the problem appears, it is obvious
I think  a loading problem occured , otherwise you would see it with the same evidence

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I've now run a few tests. I've tried both the stand alone battle version of "Roadblock" and the "Task Force Raff" version. I make sure that the Squad is centred on the gap, and I don't split it into teams. It doesn't matter if they take casualties from direct fire or indirect mortar rounds, they still won't run through the gap towards the enemy like fanatics, or run away from the gap in a panic. It certainly sounds like you need help from Tech Support

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I don't think all is as it should be. I'm playing through the Kampfgruppe Engle campaign (which I started in engine 3) and my troops seem skittish. Two half squads, one vet the other crack were behind a bocage hedge. A mortar round landed nearby (at the other side of the hedge) and both squads ran through the gap towards the enemy and cowered in open ground. I thought this was precisely  what the patch was supposed to correct. 

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when I downloaded the patch, it was placed in a wrong location
cmbn is not in my doc on my PC
it is by noting that I was still in V4.00 that I realized
I moved it and went to v4.01 but I think this manipulation has corrupted the files
I have all uninstalled and returned to v4.00
I will wait to get more feedback before putting the patch back

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Right I've seen it whilst playing Roadblock scenario and netted it as best I could > https://cl.ly/ff62313f129e/download/Roadblock%2520001.bts

Screenhots and game save just when the German HQ unit has run forward

1) As turn starts

screenshot_1369.jpg

2) A few seconds in

screenshot_1371.jpg

3) and just before the turn ends the HQ until comes dashing out forward into the open 

screenshot_1373.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I've now run a few tests. I've tried both the stand alone battle version of "Roadblock" and the "Task Force Raff" version. I make sure that the Squad is centred on the gap, and I don't split it into teams. It doesn't matter if they take casualties from direct fire or indirect mortar rounds, they still won't run through the gap towards the enemy like fanatics, or run away from the gap in a panic. It certainly sounds like you need help from Tech Support

If Tech Support can fix this issue then I'll open a ticket immediately. In my situation, it's no longer rare to find the 'withdraw' waypoint (spawned when a unit needs to decamp) set towards the enemy side. Units are simply moving towards this waypoint. Unfortunately, they will fast move through whatever gap there is even leaving cover to run into the open towards the enemy side. Wherever that waypoint is initially placed - they will go. In WEGO, you can only wait for that minute to complete hoping that enough of the unit survives to allow it to remain battle capable.

This issue has become common and can no longer be easily shrugged off as a war story. Things happen, we all accept that as long as it remains an outlier.

Again, has this behavior become more than an edge case?

Some of us were already noticing...

 

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Yesterday I posted a movie with a strange behavior of panicked infantry in CMBN, today I decided to reinstall the game ( new installation  with patch 4.01) and  now everything is ok.

Infantry behaves as it should not run aimlessly or towards the enemy but seeks shelter fleeing from the enemy. I wonder if other games should be reinstalled too. 

Thanks to the team BFC returned the desire to play 😄.

 

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Posted (edited)

I just played the same mission as yesterday again (Bocage Aux Falles - 1), got hit with a mortar round again and everybody wanted to run through the hedge.....However checking back, none of those units were aware of anything more than a tentative contact on the other side and large chunks of HE were falling out of the sky in their vicinity! 

In exchanges of small arms fire my pixeltruppen were rock solid, no problems at all.

I think what I saw yesterday was the result of panic and, based on the worrying comments above, it triggered the same in me.....Still not 100% sure though.  :unsure:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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4 hours ago, Hilts said:

I don't think all is as it should be. I'm playing through the Kampfgruppe Engle campaign (which I started in engine 3) and my troops seem skittish. Two half squads, one vet the other crack were behind a bocage hedge. A mortar round landed nearby (at the other side of the hedge) and both squads ran through the gap towards the enemy and cowered in open ground. I thought this was precisely  what the patch was supposed to correct.

My experience exactly.....However from the point of view of my pixeltruppen the biggest danger was on their side of the hedge (exploding mortar rounds), the single tentative contact on the other side, that they were aware of, probably didn't seem quite as big a threat.

It can be ugly in play, but there's a certain logic to it, assuming that the unit's awareness of the threats beyond the hedge is limited.

As I said above, not 100% sure what to think.....My units' behaviour in exchanges of rifle/MG fire seemed absolutely spot-on and in a subsequent mortaring, where the units had a better idea of the overall situation, the problem did not seem to repeat itself.  :unsure:

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26 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

As I said above, not 100% sure what to think.....My units' behaviour in exchanges of rifle/MG fire seemed absolutely spot-on and in a subsequent mortaring, where the units had a better idea of the overall situation, the problem did not seem to repeat itself.  :unsure:

Neither do I. My (green) teams seem to run towards small arms fire even if it means finding gap a couple of AS away allowing them to rush into the open towards the known firing position. They rarely break back away (and toward my side of the map).

I reinstalled and will try another small scenario (Deville).

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Have run this a few times, re-created the situation, and I have a theory as to why it happens. No promises that this is correct, mind you:

 

The move order for testing:

FTdhyud.jpg

Starting to come under fire from HMG, rifles and AT guns.
YTFXfq6.jpg

The squad, after running through the bocage, going to ground, getting shot and retreating back through.

deDBQBu.jpg


I've run this a few times. What I think is happening is that the squad starts coming under too much fire, including HE, and wants to move out of sight. Whenever I've seen this, the unit that the US squad can see is the HMG unit at the far end.

What I think is happening is that the action spot that they're running to, at the 0 (crawling) level, is out of line of sight of the HMG, which is behind a low wall - that the terrain lines up here such that there's a deadzone to the pixeltruppen, if they were crawling.

Obviously they're not crawling to get there, so they're getting shot on the way in.

They're withdrawing when they are subsequently being fired on (and picking up contact markers from) the squad in the building to the left, at which point they retreat back through the hedge.


I think this is a combination of awkward geometry and the normal randomness of panic combined with incomplete information. It's hard to debug without proper tools, obviously, but that's what I suspect.

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@domfluff

Thanks for this series of screenshots. That is exactly how I've been running my tests, without the unfortunate side effects. Even when my guys have had mortar rounds dropping on their side of the hedgerow, they still don't run through the gap towards the enemy.

Hopefully players having this problem can get it fixed soon. I'm certainly glad that it isn't happening to me.

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