Jump to content
Macisle

Kharkov Map Sneak Peak

Recommended Posts

Macisle,

  Hooo-oooly Crap!!!  The God of War has struck.  I love it!! 

  Great job on the explanation and the set-up.  The only thing I'd do differently is to have all the guys up close to your artillery strikes put into Hide command.  They seem to last out the barrage a little better and don't break and run as much.  Your map looks like quite a challenge. 

  Eagerly looking forward to Part 2.  :D

Heinrich505

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Stunning work, Macisle!! One of the best maps I've ever seen. Feels very natural.

Would love to see it with the Winter mod installed too...

Thanks, Aragorn! I think working from Google Street helps achieve a natural look. Well, that and my really trying to make what is available in the Editor recreate what I'm seeing in GS. For map making, I like that creative groove. Take windows for example. By generally following what I'm seeing in GS, some pretty intresting results emerge -- much moreso than if I chose them all myself, I think. Another thing that working from GS does is make one constantly aware of how many LOS obstructions and bits of cover exist in real life that are hard to replicate in the Editor. For example, I'm really putting a lot of effort into putting in foliage wherever I can -- both for cosmetic reasons and to help give infantry as much protection as possible. Having, say, a little zigzag of low bocage coupled with a tree or shrubs stuck between houses can make a surprising difference and make a street come alive if carried down the line.

That presents a bit of a conundrum on winter.  Of course, no place begs for winter conditions more than the Eastern Front. On the other hand, summer conditions offer greater infantry protection, nice touches like dust from dirt roads, and overall give a more natural appearance than the winter graphics, I think. So, I'm torn on winter vs. summer.

When I get a bit further along, I'll load up the Winter Mod and post some screens/vids from it to see how things look.

Speaking of mods, I really feel the need to have a custom texture pack for this map. Part of the reason the screens look as good as they do is all the great mods I'm using. Kieme's stuff, for example, adds a huge visual boost (at the expense of losing the window knockouts in occupied buildings). I loaded up the stock graphics recently and was kinda' shocked. The stock pavement textures especially don't blend in the same natural way that the mods I'm using do. I've done a bit of playing around with buildng texture work, as I'd really like to get more of a classic Russian urban look, but I haven't made much progress there. I'm not going to do anything more with that until the map is much closer to being done. I really want to avoid mission creep on this project. Of course, I could get other people working on that, while I focus on the map and H2H campaign...

1 hour ago, Heinrich505 said:

Macisle,

  Hooo-oooly Crap!!!  The God of War has struck.  I love it!! 

  Great job on the explanation and the set-up.  The only thing I'd do differently is to have all the guys up close to your artillery strikes put into Hide command.  They seem to last out the barrage a little better and don't break and run as much.  Your map looks like quite a challenge. 

  Eagerly looking forward to Part 2.  :D

Heinrich505

Thanks! Yeah, I'm usually much more careful than that. IIRC, it was very late and after the spending AI setup time, I was just trying to get in a few turns before bed. I wasn't anticipating the battle being more than a casual throwaway test, so I figured what the hey on letting my guys on the front line be all active for achieving fire superiority. Part 2 will sum up the cost and benefit of the rocket madness. Oh, and I also managed to get my smoke direction backwards -- doh! :blink:

On the difficulty of the map...I'll let the videos tell the story. For now, I'll just say  that my efforts to make the map as "real" as possible, also show what the game engine can do when pushed more than usual in that direction. After all, many of the gripes you hear about lapses in realism in the game are actually a result of either player decisions or map design that seeks to strike the most broadly pleasing balance between realism and player workload/time commitment. This map is designed for those who want maximum realism and are okay with the workload and time commitment that play on it will require. So, some people will really like playing on it -- and some will find it nearly unplayable (if you never split your squads up, you may be one of those!)

As I formulate my ideas for the H2H campaign scenarios (which, of course, can be played standalone), I'll be very much keeping workload and time commitment in mind. Right now, the likely formula is to have an area as large as decent framerates will allow, but with terrain objectives and time limits that keep things at an enjoyable level for most people. That way, they can have room to maneuver around, but not feel swamped by the work and time required to get through the scenario.

1 hour ago, grunt_GI said:

DANG that video was awesome!  Can't wait to see what Campaign designers can do with that map!

Thanks much.

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. It's my first time doing a video with voiceover, so it's my first experience tackling how much verbal info to give. I tried to keep it as short as possible.

Yeah, I hope scenario designers decide to sink their teeth into the master and look forward to seeing what they come up with.  There really needs to be a QB map pack made from it as well...

If you exclude the Soviet setup zone, the area of the slice used in the video as about 1/6 of the master map.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Heinrich505 said:

... The only thing I'd do differently is to have all the guys up close to your artillery strikes put into Hide command.  They seem to last out the barrage a little better and don't break and run as much.  Your map looks like quite a challenge...

Well, this is embarrassing, but I just checked my setup commands and in fact -- everybody WAS hidden, except for a few designated lookouts. Not only that, but all infantry units had target arcs to keep them from firing. Thus the German free-for-all small arms fire prior to the arty coming in. Why on earth didn't I notice that during the video production? Jeez... I guess it's because I was only clicking on HQ units to highlight formations and I always put cover arcs (usually 50m) on my HQs to help keep them safe.

I'll have to let folks know in Part 2. It's been a couple of months since I played those first turns and I guess when I loaded up the replay  prior to doing the video, I got it in my head that my guys were open to fire since the Germans spotted them so readily.  It was just because they were green, I guess.

From now on, I'll have to load up the command phase saves and review my moves closely before make my commentary on the video replay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MOS:96B2P said:

@Macisle Great map and interesting battle.  Thanks for all the time and effort something like this takes.  +1 

Thanks very much!  I'm glad folks are enjoying the vid. It will likely be a few weeks before I can get Part 2 made. I've no idea how many turns that will cover. Probably not that many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice very interesting map and good detailed video perhaps the biggest map that i saw good job👍,...waiting to have view vid 2...hope to see it one day also in download version to enjoy it personly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

"The God of War spoke and the earth trembled!"  :o

That was great!  B)

Please give us a basic version of the map to play with in the mean time.....I don't think I can wait that long!  :wacko:

 

If I may ?...

The earth tremble already now everywhere,  but is not because God spoke,  but cos a politic to weak sometime and a freedom that awake the Demon in us !! 🤔 sorry , Sgt.Squarehead cannot resist 😊

Edited by 3j2m7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent work, I'll be watching this series with keen interest. The map looks simply amazing.

I think your narration is spot on, let the video do the talking and just interject when you feel you need to add or explain something to make it clearer for the viewer. In my first CM vids I was jabbering all the way through then I learned to pace it and it seemed to go down better, but I think you've started off like a pro.

Best barrage ever!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Josey Wales said:

Excellent work, I'll be watching this series with keen interest. The map looks simply amazing.

I think your narration is spot on, let the video do the talking and just interject when you feel you need to add or explain something to make it clearer for the viewer. In my first CM vids I was jabbering all the way through then I learned to pace it and it seemed to go down better, but I think you've started off like a pro.

Best barrage ever!

 

Wow -- thanks, Josey! I'm a big fan of your videos and keep an eye on your channel so I can watch whenever a new one hits. You're one of the best AAR video makers out there, so your kind words here really make me feel good. Here's hoping some part of my map makes it onto your video battlefield some day.

Yeah, on video production, I think the natural human tendency is to want to talk too much or make things too long visually -- to kitchen sink it, as it were. Your videos have been very helpful in making me aware of how to strike a balance. One of the experiences that stood out this first time was trying to get the right amount of narration to support footage I wanted to show, but then having to get more footage to support the amount of narration wanted to do. Over the course of the video, the workflow went from narration supporting captured video to capturing and editing video as needed to support finalized narration.

In Part 2, the back and forth action will get going, so I'll be reviewing your vids to remind myself how best to balance things. Just like with talking too much, there is a natural tendency to want to show every bullet exchange from all the juiciest angles combined, the capturing and editing of which, is way too time consuming and not necessary. This is a long battle, so I'm going to have to look for ways to keep things engaging, but also moving along, to keep the number of parts down.

For the time being, for time's sake, I'm going to have to leave out graphics, but I like the simple, but effective and clear graphics you use. Hmm. Maybe down the line a bit...

I'm glad you liked the barrage. I sure did, too. It was my first time using 300mm rockets (outside of testing) and I think the show was worth the cost of CMRT right there! IIRC (and I may not! :P), the rocket boys are reloading...

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2018 at 12:08 AM, 3j2m7 said:

Very nice very interesting map and good detailed video perhaps the biggest map that i saw good job👍,...waiting to have view vid 2...hope to see it one day also in download version to enjoy it personly.

Thanks very much! I'll be starting on Part 2 over the weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Macisle said:

Wow -- thanks, Josey! I'm a big fan of your videos and keep an eye on your channel so I can watch whenever a new one hits. You're one of the best AAR video makers out there, so your kind words here really make me feel good. Here's hoping some part of my map makes it onto your video battlefield some day.

Yeah, on video production, I think the natural human tendency is to want to talk too much or make things too long visually -- to kitchen sink it, as it were. Your videos have been very helpful in making me aware of how to strike a balance. One of the experiences that stood out this first time was trying to get the right amount of narration to support footage I wanted to show, but then having to get more footage to support the amount of narration wanted to do. Over the course of the video, the workflow went from narration supporting captured video to capturing and editing video as needed to support finalized narration.

In Part 2, the back and forth action will get going, so I'll be reviewing your vids to remind myself how best to balance things. Just like with talking too much, there is a natural tendency to want to show every bullet exchange from all the juiciest angles combined, the capturing and editing of which, is way too time consuming and not necessary. This is a long battle, so I'm going to have to look for ways to keep things engaging, but also moving along, to keep the number of parts down.

For the time being, for time's sake, I'm going to have to leave out graphics, but I like the simple, but effective and clear graphics you use. Hmm. Maybe down the line a bit...

I'm glad you liked the barrage. I sure did, too. It was my first time using 300mm rockets (outside of testing) and I think the show was worth the cost of CMRT right there! IIRC (and I may not! :P), the rocket boys are reloading...

Thanks again!

You're welcome, and thanks in kind for the high praise.

Yes it's easy to get drawn into every little detail of a battle when editing and you have to know when to say 'Ok that's enough of that, what else is going on?' The footage/narration balance is something that comes with practice but I think you've got it spot on for the final cut.

One thing that was suggested to me and I have started doing is having the 2 opposing factions occupy different parts of the screen. In my last 2 vids I have placed the forces under my control on the left of the screen moving to the right, and the opposing forces on the right side of the screen moving to the left. If you watch clips of the 1970 movie 'Waterloo' you'll see what I mean, the Brits are mostly portrayed as being on the left of the viewer and the Frenchies on the right. It seems to have gone down well and perhaps clears things up a bit but it also limits the creativity in a way.

Anyway looking forward to part 2 whenever you get around to doing it... I know how long these things take believe me!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Macisle, 

congratulations.. superb map and video. Hugely looking forward to when all is realised. 

All the best,

Kip.

PS. As with 76mm would be great to have a map free from AI/units and such to use for homemade fun :) when the project is complete.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2018 at 10:16 PM, Josey Wales said:

You're welcome, and thanks in kind for the high praise.

Yes it's easy to get drawn into every little detail of a battle when editing and you have to know when to say 'Ok that's enough of that, what else is going on?' The footage/narration balance is something that comes with practice but I think you've got it spot on for the final cut.

One thing that was suggested to me and I have started doing is having the 2 opposing factions occupy different parts of the screen. In my last 2 vids I have placed the forces under my control on the left of the screen moving to the right, and the opposing forces on the right side of the screen moving to the left. If you watch clips of the 1970 movie 'Waterloo' you'll see what I mean, the Brits are mostly portrayed as being on the left of the viewer and the Frenchies on the right. It seems to have gone down well and perhaps clears things up a bit but it also limits the creativity in a way.

Anyway looking forward to part 2 whenever you get around to doing it... I know how long these things take believe me!

 

 

Thanks, Josey.

That movie is one of my favorites and my go to on YouTube when I'm in the mood for Napoleonic action in film. So, far, I think my style is to mix in enough medium and long shots, including a quick display of icons occasionally, to keep the viewer firmly oriented. I want to keep the freedom to frame the shot however I think things look best at that moment.

I think things tend to naturally fall into favoring one screen side for one of the combatants. Now that you've mentioned it though, I'll be more consiously aware of it and look for ways to make optimal use of it.

I'm working on Part 2 and making pretty good progress so far. -Maybe have it up by Friday.

 

9 hours ago, kipanderson said:

Macisle, 

congratulations.. superb map and video. Hugely looking forward to when all is realised. 

All the best,

Kip.

PS. As with 76mm would be great to have a map free from AI/units and such to use for homemade fun :) when the project is complete.   

Thanks, Kip!

I'll definitely be including a copy of the clean master, so folks can slice it up and use it however they want. I'm one of those players that spends most of their CM time grabbing a map or map slice, spending between 15 minutes and an hour or so in the Editor, and then having fun with a "Custom QB" for a number of days/weeks (months? :o:D). So, I know how good it is to have new quality maps.

I think this master is going to provide quite a large amount of material for slicing this way and that.

Edited by Macisle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Macisle, hi,

8 hours ago, Macisle said:

I'll definitely be including a copy of the clean master, so folks can slice it up and use it however they want. I'm one of those players that spends most of their CM time grabbing a map or map slice, spending between 15 minutes and an hour or so in the Editor, and then having fun with a "Custom QB" for a number of days/weeks (months? :o:D). So, I know how good it is to have new quality maps.

Goodness, we are doppelgangers in our CM habits..:) !

Thanks,

All the best,

kip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oorah!  :P

I think my favourite bit is at 3:00.....Clown Car to the rescue, smiting fear into the black hearts of the fascist invader, love it!  :D

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, 3j2m7 said:

Very good like detailled situation step by step...

Thanks. I wanted to be detailed to get the action going, but going forward, I'll need to try and cut down editing time where I can. Those rapid cuts take a huge amount of time to do.

10 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Oorah!  :P

I think my favourite bit is at 3:00.....Clown Car to the rescue, smiting fear into the black hearts of the fascist invader, love it!  :D

If somebody's gonna' get a Shreck Pie in the face, I try to make sure the Clown Car gets it first. :)

Also, it's not easy being green in Macisle's army.

Green means point. :oB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×