Kharkov Map Sneak Peak

[Macisle]

Lots more work to do on this, but...

Sneak Peek:

[jtsjc1]

7 hours ago, Macisle said:

Lots more work to do on this, but...

Sneak Peek:

Nice! That's some serious street fighting!

[Aragorn2002]

7 hours ago, Macisle said:

Lots more work to do on this, but...

Sneak Peek:

Gorgeous map, Macisle. The centre of Berlin. Keep them coming please.

[Macisle]

On 11/12/2017 at 2:59 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

Gorgeous map, Macisle. The centre of Berlin. Keep them coming please.

Thanks! Actually, it's Kharkov. I'm not doing any official work for the new CMRT module.

It's not a historical map. I'm generally just recreating whatever I see in Google Maps, but cutting building heights down (trying to keep them relative) to save on performance. I had some very tall buildings, but cut them recently to save on frame rates. I'm giving the project the working title of "Kharkiveskya." In other words, Kharkiv(Kharkov)-esque.

The original idea was to have a 4-hour H2H mini campaign covering the whole map. Basically, the equivalent of 3-4 scenarios under one roof, with persistent damage. The full map can absorb a ton of heavy artillery and I got beautiful results playing around with it. The "terra-forming" added a great dimension and would make the map change each time it was played, creating new tactical and supply line dynamics. Alas, as I expected, the system chokes on the number of units that eventually come in. So, I'm going to have to slice up the map.

(Note: this thread was relocated from a sub-conversion in another thread. Thus the seemingly out of context jump to the following topic.) Here are a couple of examples of the building complexes I'm talking about in relation to the suicidal rout issue. First, the ring effect I mentioned:

Again, regardless of height, troops in the tall section who panic will tend to run all the way down, then through the ring and right out into the street to their death...negating the whole value of the structure (see edit below).

EDIT: The above building is not one of the actual buildings that displayed the problems encountered during the free-form QB test I posted about above. I was just using it for posting here because it is a nicer-looking example of the kind of "ring-base" building complex I was talking about. However, I just ran two structured tests using this specific building and the defenders actually used the complex quite well. I tried it with Vet High Motivation and Reg Normal Motivation (all other attributes 0/neutral) with the same results. Hmm..that is weird. I never meant to say that the suicide rout issue happens every time, but more testing is definitely needed. These tests used mostly incoming small arms fire and no artillery. -Will do more tests as I have time.

I've had better luck with the one below, but when they panic, defending troops still tend to run outside toward the enemy rather fall back deeper into the safety of the building. Oh, and to be clear, the door paths needed are there.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Macisle
Updated information

[Aragorn2002]

It looks stunning and makes me long for a 1942/42 module for CMRT, imagine this map in the winter and fighting the Third battle of Kharkov on it.  Mouth-watering....

[Macisle]

1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

It looks stunning and makes me long for a 1942/42 module for CMRT, imagine this map in the winter and fighting the Third battle of Kharkov on it.  Mouth-watering....

Thanks!

Yeah, that's really want I want--the early equipment. Here's hoping we might get some kind of early war bones, even though the time frame is late to end of war. I may do a winter and summer version so folks can choose. I am planning to have the Germans be SS, but with the Soviets attacking. I also may do some original textures to give a more authentic city architecture feel. Looking at the stock independent textures from RT and BS, I might be able to adapt them to make some acceptable modular textures for that.

I would definitely want to use those on the palace-like building from above. Here is that building from the front:

[Aragorn2002]

17 minutes ago, Macisle said:

Thanks!

Yeah, that's really want I want--the early equipment. Here's hoping we might get some kind of early war bones, even though the time frame is late to end of war. I may do a winter and summer version so folks can choose. I am planning to have the Germans be SS, but with the Soviets attacking. I also may do some original textures to give a more authentic city architecture feel. Looking at the stock independent textures from RT and BS, I might be able to adapt them to make some acceptable modular textures for that.

I would definitely want to use those on the palace-like building from above. Here is that building from the front:

Imagine that building against a grey sky, while the cold Eastern wind is blowing and the snow is whirling down. Magic.

A vehicle pack with early war tanks and stuff for CMRT. Yes, that would be something.

[PanzerMike]

Impressive map!

[IICptMillerII]

This looks fantastic!

Hopefully by the time you have it done the patch for 4.0 will be released and the map can be fully experienced. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Bravo! 

That's a great looking map.....I'm another with a hankering for some earlier Ostfront CM content, I miss grey panzers (and scaring the **** outta them with KV-1s). 

[Macisle]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

Well, since the cat's out of the bag on this project, I'll go ahead and post a few more pics. Again, it's early days and this won't be out until after the next CMRT module is released (KV-1, baby! Plllleeeeeaaase!) I've only added temporary foliage in areas where the door networks are largely done so I can get a little test combat going there. Also, I obviously, haven't finished adding all the buildings, let alone fleshing out the other terrain elements in those areas (or most of the areas with buildings). Since I'm going to have to slice up the map, I'll be adding some tall buildings back in later that are currently cut down in size.

Here is an overhead. I just grabbed the Google Map screen on the right, so this is not my working overlay. Currently, my plan is to have the Soviet attacker start in the SE corner. I'd like to thank the people of Kharkov for providing a ready-made setup zone in the form of a large park and cushion of buildings!

 

Here's the elevation overlay I did (which is, of course, matched to my working overlay). I will be doing some polishing work later, once everything else is in. Sorry for any seizures or flashbacks!

 

It's not Stalingrad, but in winter, this area might serve for a little "Fallen Fighters" combat.

 

Another angle on same area:

 

And lastly, a bird's eye of one of the little neighborhood areas. I'll call this shot "Mean Streets."

 

That's it for now. It may be awhile before I have additional pic-worthy content. I'll post it as I have it, along with any interesting combat test results (suicidal rout, path bugs, arty effects, etc.).

[Ithikial_AU]

On 12/11/2017 at 7:35 AM, Macisle said:

The original idea was to have a 4-hour H2H mini campaign covering the whole map. Basically, the equivalent of 3-4 scenarios under one roof, with persistent damage. The full map can absorb a ton of heavy artillery and I got beautiful results playing around with it. The "terra-forming" added a great dimension and would make the map change each time it was played, creating new tactical and supply line dynamics. Alas, as I expected, the system chokes on the number of units that eventually come in. So, I'm going to have to slice up the map.

Reminds me of the fun I had making the ruined Carpiquet for the second half of my campaign. The abilitiy to import the state of a map after a 'battle' would have saved so much time and probably made the end result far more random than it was with me manually placing every crater. It's amazing how easy it is to see patterns in your own work once you review it in the 3D environment.

I also hope for your own sanity whenever there is an early / mid war east front title there is someway to import this work across.

Anyway impressive. Keep up the good word.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

My sympathies on the building/door/window placement thing, it's a total chore to do, but once it is done it really does make a world of difference to the playability of a map. 

[Macisle]

6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

My sympathies on the building/door/window placement thing, it's a total chore to do, but once it is done it really does make a world of difference to the playability of a map. 

Definitely. Speaking of which...

Here's an initial stab at putting back in some big buildings. Just finished the doors on 'em. Taking these puppies are likely to be among the Soviet player's first tasks.

[Macisle]

17 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Reminds me of the fun I had making the ruined Carpiquet for the second half of my campaign. The abilitiy to import the state of a map after a 'battle' would have saved so much time and probably made the end result far more random than it was with me manually placing every crater. It's amazing how easy it is to see patterns in your own work once you review it in the 3D environment.

I also hope for your own sanity whenever there is an early / mid war east front title there is someway to import this work across.

Anyway impressive. Keep up the good word.

Oh, yeah. Man...I don't even want to think about trying to redo this sucker from scratch. But speaking of importing, seeing as how it is essentially modern Kharkov, it could be a good candidate for port into CMBS if that ever becomes possible.

On damage:

Pre-placed damage can really add to the atmosphere of a map. But if possible, I like to let the player make his own. For the battles in this campaign, I'll probably just add a very light amount for flavor in the overlap zones between map slices. That means that some buildings may magically reappear, but better that than eliminate cover. One of the tricky things will be deciding how to deal with the river and bridges in regards to slicing. For realism, the defender needs to be able to put fire on the attacker from across the river if he holds that terrain, but the map cutting will create decision-making work on how to facilitate that (isolated units across river or with a path across a bridge? If so, where? How many setup zones? Etc.).

[76mm]

wow, amazing map. When it is finished, or close to finished, will you post a link?  I'd like to include it in my CMRT map database.

[Macisle]

28 minutes ago, 76mm said:

wow, amazing map. When it is finished, or close to finished, will you post a link?  I'd like to include it in my CMRT map database.

Thanks!

I'd love for it to be included in your db. It will be uploaded to TSDIII and a link put here. Currently, there is no ETA on it, other than sometime after the next CMRT module. I want to integrate the new material from that and have tons more work to do on it as well.

[76mm]

OK, no rush, whenever it is ready.  It will be worth it!

[c3k]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:41 PM, Macisle said:

 

Here's the elevation overlay I did (which is, of course, matched to my working overlay). I will be doing some polishing work later, once everything else is in. Sorry for any seizures or flashbacks!

 

@Macisle, how did you create this???

 

[Macisle]

1 hour ago, c3k said:

@Macisle, how did you create this???

 

IIRC, I got the technique off the forum (a post by Pete W?). You give Google Earth a solid color image to use as a layer mask and set it to mask everything in relation to an elevation. Then you take screenshots using different transparency levels and layer them to identify the elevation lines. IIRC, I gave up on that exact process and instead took a bunch of GE mask screen shots, then made the color layers in photoshop, working with each elevation layer one-by-one. It's been about a year since I did it. I don't have time at the moment, but I'll check my files when I can to see what I have to spark my memory. Maybe I still have that link (or the author will see this and chime in). I do remember that it was a LOT of work. The close proximity of so many of the lines was a bit of a pill and has created some areas I need to polish (got some buildings with "sinking" first floors, too.)

[c3k]

4 minutes ago, Macisle said:

IIRC, I got the technique off the forum (a post by Pete W?). You give Google Earth a solid color image to use as a layer mask and set it to mask everything in relation to an elevation. Then you take screenshots using different transparency levels and layer them to identify the elevation lines. IIRC, I gave up on that exact process and instead took a bunch of GE mask screen shots, then made the color layers in photoshop, working with each elevation layer one-by-one. It's been about a year since I did it. I don't have time at the moment, but I'll check my files when I can to see what I have to spark my memory. Maybe I still have that link (or the author will see this and chime in). I do remember that it was a LOT of work. The close proximity of so many of the lines was a bit of a pill and has created some areas I need to polish (got some buildings with "sinking" first floors, too.)

Ahhh....I remember that. The layers were a pita. Kudos to you!

[Macisle]

Okay, this really will be the last map screenshot for awhile, but I couldn't resist a little QB action on the new section and caught this cool little moment:

[Aragorn2002]

49 minutes ago, Macisle said:

Okay, this really will be the last map screenshot for awhile, but I couldn't resist a little QB action on the new section and caught this cool little moment:

Superb stuff! I never gave a Stalingrad module much thought, but now I start to realize it would be great.

[IanL]

1 hour ago, Macisle said:

IIRC, I got the technique off the forum (a post by Pete W?). You give Google Earth a solid color image to use as a layer mask and set it to mask everything in relation to an elevation. Then you take screenshots using different transparency levels and layer them to identify the elevation lines. IIRC, I gave up on that exact process and instead took a bunch of GE mask screen shots, then made the color layers in photoshop, working with each elevation layer one-by-one.

The article about doing that I have on my FAQ post is form @StoneAge:

In case anyone is wondering...

[benpark]

Great looking map!