Will I enjoy this?

[Charley Phogg]

I used to be a big fan of the original series -- CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK. Played a lot, including the Rumblings of War tournaments under the name PittPanther31.

However, I did not enjoy Shock Force at all.

Watching the youtube video was nostalgic for me - the new game looked like an updated version of the earlier game. But without a demo, I'm unsure if this game will play like the original or shock force?

Please give an old timer some advice. . . Do you think I would enjoy this?

[LongLeftFlank]

Play the demo and then decide. Don't buy it first and then be disappointed.

Whether you'll like it really depends on your particular reasons for disliking CMSF -- was it the setting and force imbalance, or was it the gameplay and extra micro involved? And CMSF also came a long long way between release and its current incarnation. I barely played in the first 2 years, but now it's pretty much all I play.

[Sergei]

You can wait for the demo to come. However, there's a lot of old time CM players in the testers who skipped on CMSF but who have loved CMBN. So, the chances are good that you'll like it, too. But like said, you can wait for the demo!

[MikeyD]

There seems to be a cadre people who are taking this game sooo seriously! Like they're working on their doctoral dissertation in modern European history or something. It hard to imagine some of them 'enjoying' it even if it fulfills all their expectations. All you really have to remember is you get to bounce 75mm AP shot off the bows of attacking Panthers, and you get to blow up stuff with Nebelwerfer rocket attacks. In other words - its fun! Anything beyond that is just 'details'.

[Blackcat]

I used to be a big fan of the original series -- CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK. Played a lot, including the Rumblings of War tournaments under the name PittPanther31.

However, I did not enjoy Shock Force at all.

Watching the youtube video was nostalgic for me - the new game looked like an updated version of the earlier game. But without a demo, I'm unsure if this game will play like the original or shock force?

Please give an old timer some advice. . . Do you think I would enjoy this?

No, you will hate it. If you want a game that plays like CMBO then your best bet is CMBO.

[scottie]

Took me a while to get into CMSF , like 2 - 3 year later after release i was persuaded to patch up and buy a module. Dont care for the fictional conflict or the bland terrain but i can still appreciate the fine detail of the engine and now understand much more about how the game mechanics work. CMx2 engine is something special , honestly , cant always see that playing the game , sometimes take a bit of reading on this forum to see the light.

[Erwin]

I tell everyone that CM2 is an xnt game but you have to approach it as almost a completely new game system with many similarities to the CM1 interface and concepts.

CM2 is a much more detailed and smaller scale version of CM1. Playing WEGO I find it takes a LOT more work, focus and time to play a typical CM2 scenario as the CM2 system is akin to flying a modern fighter jet vs the CM1 being like flying WW1/WW2 prop planes. CM2 is very unforgiving of mistakes and you can lose a game with one mistake. As such, CM2 is more of a simulation and CM1 is more of a game.

CM2 scenarios are typically much smaller than CM1 scenarios. If you enjoyed the Operational feel of the huge CM1 scenarios and operations in which you could command regiments - even divisions theoretically, you will miss that element in CM2 as it's hard to control more than a battalion-sized task force (and hard on your computer system too).

I enjoy CMSF and CMA very much. But, if you play with the object of minimal friendly casualties, I find the mental focus required to be mentally exhausting after a couple months and I have to return to CM1 for a couple months fun and R&R before I can face CM2 again.

I consider the feeling of "burn-out" that CM2 provides is simply another "realistic" feature LOL.

[Sergei]

I enjoy CMSF and CMA very much. But, if you play with the object of minimal friendly casualties, I find the mental focus required to be mentally exhausting after a couple months and I have to return to CM1 for a couple months fun and R&R before I can face CM2 again.

It's what Genghis Khan said - "you can't make an omelette without killing people!"

[Andrew H.]

Play the demo.

I liked the mechanics of SF quite a bit; I just never got into the period or the asymmetrical nature of the warfare.

[Michael Emrys]

It's what Genghis Khan said - "you can't make an omelette without killing people!"

Right. I played TacOps for years before CM was available, and in that game my goal was always to win the scenario with zero casualties. But when I move to CM I quickly discovered that that was not possible. I still tried to keep casualties to a minimum, but I couldn't fight without losing at least some men and equipment. I guess what I ended up doing was to form some estimate of what level of casualties were "acceptable" for the objective and if I lost more than that, to break off the action.

Michael

[WineCape]

...there's a lot of old time CM players in the testers who skipped on CMSF but who have loved CMBN.

Moi for one.

[Thin Red Line]

Mee too. CMSF is a really great game in terms of gameplay but i couldn't get interested into the fictionnal setting and the unbalanced warfare depite many attempts.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Mee too. CMSF is a really great game in terms of gameplay but i couldn't get interested into the fictionnal setting and the unbalanced warfare depite many attempts.

A fictional war, maybe, but the hardware in this game appears so often in the news today, that I am glad to have experienced what it is capable of.

In that respect I find CMSF much more real than the historical context of WWII.

(and of course no other game presents the Dutch Army).

[WineCape]

....and of course no other game presents the Dutch Army.

Just regard the Afrikaans-speaking South Africans in CMAK as indirect representation of the Dutch Army.

Ons is immers afstammelinge van Nederland! Wel, die meeste.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Just regard the Afrikaans-speaking South Africans in CMAK as indirect representation of the Dutch Army.

Ons is immers afstammelinge van Nederland! Wel, die meeste.

One could argue that there is a lot more heritage from the Netherlands.

The British Empire could only take off after the transfer of international banking - and all the entourage with it - from Holland to London, and the constitution of a modern rational state by King William of Orange.

(But then: that same international banking system had moved from Antwerp to Holland a century before, and it had arrived in Antwerp through Brughes from Northern Italy and ultimately the Islamic countries with the invention of double book-keeping and the balance).

And I could mention New Amsterdam as important impulse for the American society.

At least the Afrikaners kept the Dutch language - albeit in just as much Flemish as Hollandish roots.

But, in CM Normandy there will be no South African troops.

We would have to wait for a Mediterranean module before they appear in the game, isn't it?

I am afraid we will see units of the Dutch SS before we will see South Africans or the Irene Brigade.

[Rambler]

Mee too. CMSF is a really great game in terms of gameplay but i couldn't get interested into the fictionnal setting and the unbalanced warfare depite many attempts.

I see where you're coming from, but that's what I really like about CMSF; how "today" it is. This stuff is happening now. Look at the front page of the Wall Street Journal online today. The main headline is "U.S. Seeks to Raise Heat on Syria." Yeah, it's a hypothetical conflict in the game, but one that is turning out could be very real. The precedent to intervene militarily for "humanitarian" reasons was set in Libya. Who's to say this couldn't extend to Syria next?

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to get political. I'm just merely pointing out that even though CMSF is a hypothetical setting, it's not really that pie in the sky.

[whako]

Honestly, CMBN looks similiar to SF just in a WW2 setting. I didnt get into SF (did purchase the game though), but the desert with a few palm trees and hills thrown in was not my cup of tea. Dude play the demo of SF and you get a basic idea of CMBN, the two are not that far apart.

[MikeyD]

Keep in mind, no matter how carefully constructed every battle in every game is fictional. 'Historical fidelity' is a mere game conceit intended to heighten enjoyment. Someone looks at a topo map and reads a combat account then stages a dramatic "tableau vivant" of the event for the player's amusement. For all the historical rigor the result is still no closer to 'reality' than acting the scene out with finger puppets.

[WineCape]

Keep in mind, no matter how carefully constructed every battle in every game is fictional. 'Historical fidelity' is a mere game conceit intended to heighten enjoyment. Someone looks at a topo map and reads a combat account then stages a dramatic "tableau vivant" of the event for the player's amusement. For all the historical rigor the result is still no closer to 'reality' than acting the scene out with finger puppets.

Should be all called FFF scenarios: Fake, Fictional Fidelity.

All Battles should strictly be classified as Semi-Historical if the definition thereof is: "Inspired by real events." I imagine working 10+ years on the research of a detailed OrBat/OOB of a specific battle [cough.... JohnS ...] is just for amusement and to keep people from going out to fly fish, walking the kids or enjoying the sunshine.