CM:N Machinegun Thoughts & Dreams

[Lanzfeld]

Playing Thunder campaign in CMSF right now and watching my 240 teams operate I just started to dream about a few changes I would LOVE to see in CM:N (.30 cal and Mg-34/42, ect.). Tell me what you think.

1. Now I have wanted this forever. Longer bursts. More dispersion. You know. Watch any combat clip and see what I mean.

2. The ability for teams to "link" up ammo belts if they dont move so as not to have to reload so often (this fits well with longer bursts see).

3. Barrel changes! Only on the MG's that had this ability. Obviously there would have to be some side algorithm or calculation on the barrel temps with respect to how long it was firing/ time between bursts/ need for defense/ panic/ ect.

Just some dreaming. FWIW

[Dietrich]

Five seconds is a pretty long time for a continuous burst. Especially at 1000+ RPM. FWIW.

Otherwise, 1+ to the above.

[SlowMotion]

Do MGs ever jam in CMSF? If not, that's one thing I miss from CMx1.

[MikeyD]

One mg where longer bursts would be logical would be the old U.S. M1917 HMG with water jacket around the barrel. It seems to me that weapon was made for prolonged bursts. I've been hunting for training manuals on the mgs. Does anybody know what official doctrine was re proper use of the M1917 and M1919 mgs in combat?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Longer burst for sure. The current machineguns are a bit too text book.

And I definitely hope to see a real differentiation between air and watercooled MGs. For a watercooled Browning or Vickers, 5 seconds should be scoffed at as being a bit short.

And then there's Ye Olde Area which really should start living up to it's name. I'm thinking something along the lines of the linear target tool used in the arty interface, but for MG (or even squad) area fire.

[MeatEtr]

I never really paid much attention to the MGs in CMSF. But I thought the burst length was dependent on range to target. The shorter the range the longer the burst. So then if your target was like 200+ meters away then wouldn't it just be a waste of ammo?

[flamingknives]

Rapid on the British Vickers was a belt (250 rounds) in a minute. With a cyclic rate of 500 rounds a minute that means it should be firing as often as it is not. The M1917 is a fairly similar weapon.

[MikeyD]

While Googling my way around the net on this topic I hit on a fun little factoid. It was recommended the MG42 barrel be changed-out for a cool barrel every 250 rounds. At the MG 42's ROF that works out to about 12.5 seconds of firing.

[dan/california]

I am going to go out on a limb ans say it was not quite that frequently done.

[c3k]

Ammo cans. Without ammo cans CM:N will simply be just another BF.C game. Imagine loading up your troops with ammo and then SEEING the effect all that ammo has. Rifles slung, so no outgoing firepower while they're moving. Shoulders slumped, low endurance, out of breath. Jangling bandoliers.

It all hinges on ammo cans...

Ken

[Erwin]

Good idea. That would indeed tend to discourage my tendency to load everyone up to the max as currently it appears that pixeltruppen experience very little negative consequence (despite protestations to the contrary).

[Lanzfeld]

Five seconds is a pretty long time for a continuous burst. Especially at 1000+ RPM. FWIW.

Otherwise, 1+ to the above.

Check out some of the real combat footage comming out of A-Stan or Iraq on Liveleak. 5 second bursts or longer are the norm when the **** hits the fan from SAW's and 240's.

Oh yeah and LOVE the ammo cans idea c3k.

[Lanzfeld]

Thinking more about the ammo idea. I usually give my squads 1000 extra 5.56 right at the start of the mission. When you think about it, that is only just over 3 extra clips per man in a 9 man squad.

But I hear what your saying. Taking all the extra ammo from the strykers (over 3000 rounds in some cases?) should make you more cumbersome.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Check out some of the real combat footage comming out of A-Stan or Iraq on Liveleak. 5 second bursts or longer are the norm when the **** hits the fan from SAW's and 240's.

I wouldn't say that. 5 seconds is pretty long.

How did we arrive at 5 second bursts anyway? But a 2-3 second burst, I wouldn't mind seeing that every now and again. Possibly tied to the own unit suppression.

Or very rapid short bursts with pretty much only a token pause between burstd. But the current MG bursts are just way too tidy. Mechanical.

[c3k]

Yeah, heavier and more randomized burst lengths would seem to be more realistic, hence, they'd add to the immersion. As well, I'd think that longer bursts would increase the suppressive effect of machineguns.

Ken

[undead reindeer cavalry]

i'd like the battles to play better* in general. can't say MG animations would top my priority list.

*) yea, "better" is the bestest to describe it all

[MikeyD]

Back on the topic of MG42 firing and frequent barrel changes. I recall seeing an old U.S. Army training film (possibly posted here) instructing infantry on how to deal with the MG42. The recommendation was to wait til they firing stopped for a barrel change and then assault. I'm not saying it was sound advice, just that the Allies were aware of MG42 frequent barrel change issues.

[AslakH]

Would be awesome to have longer bursts, or at least more frequent short bursts.

Could it possibly be done with a "sustained fire" and "harassing fire" ("target" and "target light") command?

Or something to that effect. I just woke up.

[panzermartin]

"MG bursts are just way too tidy. Mechanical"

This. I expect to see a bit less textbook mg behaviour in CM:N with more random patterns, longer and shorter bursts and grazing fire. Its too controlled and robotic right now.

[Dietrich]

Back on the topic of MG42 firing and frequent barrel changes. I recall seeing an old U.S. Army training film (possibly posted here) instructing infantry on how to deal with the MG42. The recommendation was to wait til they firing stopped for a barrel change and then assault. I'm not saying it was sound advice, just that the Allies were aware of MG42 frequent barrel change issues.

From the "HMGs in Normandy" thread:

For one contemporary assessment of German MG usage, see http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/firepower/index.html, in particular the final subheading:

"Our men have learned how to get around the fast-shooting German light machine guns. These guns have such a rapid rate of fire that they are not able to cover a great deal of ground. When our men have stayed well apart, the machine guns have not been able to do much damage. Actually, these weapons are terrific ammunition wasters. And our men have learned how to take advantage of the few moments afforded when the crew must change barrels. This happens frequently because of the high rate of fire. What ground the light machine guns cover is covered well, but it's a very limited area."

[LongLeftFlank]

Ammo cans. Without ammo cans CM:N will simply be just another BF.C game. Imagine loading up your troops with ammo and then SEEING the effect all that ammo has. Rifles slung, so no outgoing firepower while they're moving. Shoulders slumped, low endurance, out of breath. Jangling bandoliers.

It all hinges on ammo cans...

Ken

I thought it is was about flares. Boy, the fanbase is fickle.

[c3k]

LOL, just for that LLF, I'm going to have to paste a flaringly obvious link...

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=92544

Thanks for the illuminating reminder.

Ken

Edited to add: This is Soooo obvious! We need to add AMMO CANS FOR FLARES! Imagine the mayhem when one gets hit! That ought to tie these two threads together nicely...

[rlg85]

Ammo cans. Without ammo cans CM:N will simply be just another BF.C game. Imagine loading up your troops with ammo and then SEEING the effect all that ammo has. Rifles slung, so no outgoing firepower while they're moving. Shoulders slumped, low endurance, out of breath. Jangling bandoliers.

It all hinges on ammo cans...

Ken

Ammo cans in the field? I don't think so. At least with the M42 Airborne uniforms you can quite easily carry 200 rounds of ammunition per person, and quite a lot more than that if you start stuffing your pockets.

If you really want to get crazy, show some airborne troops carrying their ammo in rigger made pouches on pistol belts instead of cartridge belts Each pouch can carry 32 rounds or so depending on how big the rigger made it. They also often shoved ammo in GP bags or in their musette.

[Erwin]

You can also put about 45 rounds up your a**. (Em... or so I am told.)

[rlg85]

You can also put about 45 rounds up your a**. (Em... or so I am told.)

Sounds like a bit of personal experience...

Accidental firing might cause a bit of a problem if you're storing them there. Also your buddy probably won't want to help you get those out.