NATO module content - some info

[Webwing]

I want to give you guys some information regarding the scenarios that will be included in NATO now that we are so close to the release date.

We are in the last stages of testing the campaigns. This is obviously extremely time consuming but, like I said, we are very close to the end.

Here is the flowchart for the German campaign. It will give you an idea why it takes so long to test it.

There are 3 campaigns, Dutch, Canadian and German. In total 36 unique missions! While in the previous modules we had 18 missions in a campaign here you get twice that much. We are not counting the variants either. Some missions have 2 variants, some have 4!

The designer leading the campaign work is Paper Tiger, which we all know, is totally commited to quality and perfection in everything he does.

There are also 25 stand alone missions. They are very different from one another in size and force mix. Also the terrain and setting is varied. They were designed by George MC, Jaws, MarkEzra, MikeyD, Normal Dude and Sergei. I playtested many of these scenarios myself and I have to say they are among the best in CM:SF.

Among the standalones we have 6 H2H maps. 3 are metting engagements and 3 attack type scenarios. They were designed by MarkEzra specifically to be played against another human opponent, so that both sides have balanced forces and objectives. PBEM/TCP players will sure be happy with that. I have tested TCP play myself and can say it is a great experience. The problems of the past are long gone and playing against a friend over the Internet is awesome as anyone that has tried it knows. If you haven´t tried this yet I encourage you to do so. It´s a completely different challenge.

Also included in the module are 50 new maps for the Quick Battles. That puts the total of QB maps at 275.

The total of scenarios, including the ones in the campaigns, is 61(not including variants)!!!! It is an umprecedented amount of content in a module or game! That should keep you guys busy for some time!

Last but not least we have an awesome demo mission ready to go! I´m not going to say anything about this one so I don´t spoil it for you.

All this is obviously only possible because of the hard work of the scenario designers in the beta team, that with their time, passion and great talent have helped transforme this module into a very special product.

[Gpig]

Sounds awesome, Webwing. Please accept my thanks for all your hard work and pass on these kudo's to all the testers, creators and artists! Cheers.

Gpig

[Dennis50]

Please accept my thanks also... sounds like lots of fun coming our way. I especially like the 50 new QB maps, I hope a few are forested type maps which are my favorites. Thanks again to all you guys and looking forward to this final module.

Regards,

Gunz

[AkumaSD]

Excellent post!

[GSX]

Is the reason that the campaigns take so long to get right the fact that the Modules are delayed so long?

I think it was mentioned about a year ago now that NATO was almost ready? So here we are, full of anticipation, but, a year later.

If the modules are so slowed up by the Campaign, then why not relaease the Module before the campaign? Or simply admit defeat and let guys design their own campaigns or offer the BF one for $5?

I would certainly buy a CMN without any campaign and since its ben playtesting for 2 years now Im wondering, is it a campaign thing?

[Sequoia]

As I recall, the Marines Module got dinged pretty bad on Gamespot because the Campaign had issues, so I imagine they want to avoid that. To my knowledge, however, the British Forces module never got reviewed on Gamespot.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Strange as it may seem from someone who has been consistently complaining there's not enough campaign to the campaigns but I had hoped for less branches.

No slight to the excellent work of the scenario designers but my campaigns, even the Brit and Marine one, are an unbroken string of victories for me. Judging by this overview of the German campaign I'll never see more then half of the battles in a campaign, a number of them unique missions. Seems a bit of a waste.

Will we be seeing the individual battles released as scenarios at some point?

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Webwing]

Is the reason that the campaigns take so long to get right the fact that the Modules are delayed so long?

No. I said it takes time to do and test campaigns, not that they are causing delays.

When you think that in 2 years you will see 2 games and one module being released, that is like one product every 8 months. It´s not too bad.

Also notice that NATO is a huge module, Afghanistan was the first time Battlefront did a CM game with a partner and Normandy will have loads of new features and a new setting.

As I recall, the Marines Module got dinged pretty bad on Gamespot because the Campaign had issues, so I imagine they want to avoid that. To my knowledge, however, the British Forces module never got reviewed on Gamespot.

Unfortunately not all the testing in the world can guarantee there will not be problems. But we sure as hell are trying our best, that much I can tell you.

Are the campaign mission maps among those?

No.

Strange as it may seem from someone who has been consistently complaining there's not enough campaign to the campaigns but I had hoped for less branches.

No slight to the excellent work of the scenario designers but my campaigns, even the Brit and Marine one, are an unbroken string of victories for me. Judging by this overview of the German campaign I'll never see more then half of the battles in a campaign, a number of them unique missions. Seems a bit of a waste.

I don´t see it as a waste at all.

Withing the requirements of the campaigns system I´m very happy with the result of both the UK and now the NATO campaigns.

The good thing about the heavy branching you see in the flowchart is that you don´t need to replay a mission if you don´t get a win. Actually looking at the chart you should be encouraged to move on with a draw or less. This means when you replay a mission chances are things will be different. They will also be different because there are several AI plans for each one.

Regarding the difficulty settings we had and still have many discussions about it. Problem is when playtesting I usually get a defeat while others win easily. So, what is easy for one person is very hard for the other. To strike a balance is complicated. We need to have several people testing the same missions. Then again after being tweaked.

Take into account also that campaigns use core units, and if you lose too many men in one mission, they will not show up for the next.

Will we be seeing the individual battles released as scenarios at some point?

Possibly.

-

[MeatEtr]

On that note, it would really be great if there was some kind of a campaign overview in-game, like the flowchart posted. So you can easily see a campaign structure but also to pick and play a battle you couldn't before. At least not without replaying the whole campaign.

And while I'm at it, how about some kind of "Force Pool" or "OOB" button in campaigns where the player can see his forces/reinforcements. Best example of something like this is in Paper Tigers campaigns with a "Force Pool" scenario where see your chewed up forces in a motor pool.

Anyways, thanks for posting the info Webwing. Looking forward to playing NATO.

[MarkEzra]

The Fifty New QB Maps are actually only the tip of the iceberg for QB Map Changes. All 275 QB Maps have been re-worked to improve AI Pathing:

1. The AI Defender has a timed Counter-Attack ability

2. The AI Attacker will attempt to push the Human completely of the Objective

3. Improved AI Arty Use.

The other scen designers always contribute to the QB Maps. So Some maps may be from the Campaign.

I expect there is a forest map or two for this batch ... But I did contentrate more on them for USMC (hills/temperate climate in West Coast Syria)

[vincere]

Will we be seeing the individual battles released as scenarios at some point?

Possibly

What do you mean by battles as scenarioes; is this reference to several on the same map?

Overview of core units along the way would by welcome

[Paper Tiger]

GSX:

Is the reason that the campaigns take so long to get right the fact that the Modules are delayed so long?

Absolutely not! I can hold my head up here and state quite definitely for the record that the campaigns are not holding up the release of the module one iota.

If the modules are so slowed up by the Campaign, then why not relaease the Module before the campaign?

Of course, since the first part of this sentence is in error the second part is meaningless. The campaigns are NOT holding things up. You have no idea how hard folks work on the Beta Team and I know you don't like us much, prefering to belittle us personally and our work both here and in that cesspit you moderate, but give us SOME credit, please.

Elmar:

Will we be seeing the individual battles released as scenarios at some point?

You will definitely see mine some time after the module is released. But they won't be the same missions. They'll be more difficult than the campaign missions. Some folks were really struggling to win a mission I made for the Canadian Campaign and so the campaign version is somewhat easier than the 'original' version you'll eventually see on the Repository.

[MarkEzra]

Everybody knows why the Holdup.... It's Practice!

[ChrisND]

With Battlefront's permission, I'll adapt my campaign missions for standalone play and release them on the Repository some time after release.

[ChrisND]

Judging by this overview of the German campaign I'll never see more then half of the battles in a campaign, a number of them unique missions. Seems a bit of a waste.

Most of those branching from defeats are merely variants of missions you would encounter normally, but changed slightly as a result of the defeat. Also keep in mind that the ones at the bottom fan out from a "decision" scenario, where the loss leading to the other set of scenarios isn't really a loss.

[Dennis50]

The Fifty New QB Maps are actually only the tip of the iceberg for QB Map Changes. All 275 QB Maps have been re-worked to improve AI Pathing:

1. The AI Defender has a timed Counter-Attack ability

2. The AI Attacker will attempt to push the Human completely of the Objective

3. Improved AI Arty Use.

The other scen designers always contribute to the QB Maps. So Some maps may be from the Campaign.

I expect there is a forest map or two for this batch ... But I did contentrate more on them for USMC (hills/temperate climate in West Coast Syria)

This makes me happy.. thanks for the extra work on the QB's. I remember a post from you to another fellow that he should delete all of his QB maps when Nato is released so he would have all the updated maps installed. I think you may have told him to do that bacause of the version of the game he was running but I don't remember for sure. Would that be required for those of us using all modules to date and 1.21? Or will the reworked Qb maps coming with Nato overwrite existing maps?

Regards,

Gunz

[silverstars]

Seeing the campaigns branching out reminds me of how much I would like to see more branching in campaigns, specifically if we can ever get persistant map damage going again. To clarify instead of just Win=go forward and Lose=step back, A Draw=same map with possible reinforcements option would be available. I think even without persistant map damage, the feature would be a real boon to a CMN campaign.

[theFightingSeabee]

Yeah guys, this is just the German campaign!!! There's so much new content (units and campaigns especially) it's not even funny. NATO has been in production for a while and I've barely scratched the surface!

[Mord]

Thanks for all your hard work fellas...a lot of us do realize you put in real time and effort to get these things out, and it's appreciated.

Any of us that have modded or created scenarios especially, understand how much work goes into it. I know how much sweat and heart I've put into some of my stuff and it's a tiny drop in the bucket to what a full module or full release has to offer and not near as professional as what you guys give us.

So ^5! and thanks again...looking forward to what you've got in store for us.

I'll say it again...it's gonna be a great year for war gaming (Sept 2010 to Sept 2011)!

Mord.

[MarkEzra]

This makes me happy.. thanks for the extra work on the QB's. I remember a post from you to another fellow that he should delete all of his QB maps when Nato is released so he would have all the updated maps installed. I think you may have told him to do that bacause of the version of the game he was running but I don't remember for sure. Would that be required for those of us using all modules to date and 1.21? Or will the reworked Qb maps coming with Nato overwrite existing maps?

Regards,

Gunz

The NATO QB Maps will overwrite all existing QB Maps of CMSF V1.21. Any user made Maps a player may have added will remain in the file in what ever state they are in. I guess the question would be why would you want them? But Lets say you do. Once in a while those maps will pop up and play however they play... Not a big deal. If memory serves the guy I was answering had described a bunch of long solved issues but said he was currently patched. Something didn't compute so I told him it might be best to start fresh. But it really doesn't matter a whole bunch. Oh, and for those who do not plan to get the NATO mod... all the QB Maps (as always) will be in the update patch. But man... get NATO! I just Hmmm ahhh "Tested" a QB US M1A1SA Vs German Leopard... yeah WW2 super-sized!

[Peter Panzer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, detail, continuity, selfless dedication - whatever.

The real questions are...

Will Scipio be updating his most excellent colorized unit and small arms icon mod to correspond with the new Nato forces?

...and...

Can Mord and GeorgeMC pull off a convincing, "Hey Troop, shut the f*ck up!" in German, Dutch and Canadian accented English so as to round out their preposterously good voices mod?

I'll tell you folks, I had no intention to buy the Nato Module for a very long time, however after seeing the amount of work invested and all of the flat-out weird sh*t our European friends go to war with I will definitely be downloading it!

Congratulations to all of those who have poured so much of their personal and professional time into making this game better for all of us. Thank you!

[Zatoichi]

Thanks for this thread - what a nice way to start the boring workday! Three different campaigns and a complete overhaul of the QB maps, not to mention new functionality and three new forces to mess around with.

What's not to like?

Oh, and Syrian trucks...

Thanks one and all - I wish you every success with this module, I cannot wait to get my hands on it!

[theFightingSeabee]

I certainly hope Scipio will be able to do that without much trouble. I really do love the weapons icons and can't live without them! Ok, I can, but I prefer them 100 times over. They should come with the game.

Hopefully Mord can pull off a Canadian accent. "Squad, Move Oot!"

While the guys who are getting paid do great work, I really think we owe a lot to quite a few of these guys who spend a significant portion of their free unpaid time helping to make the game better. Thanks for all the work!