Can Hq's now do damage?

[david12345]

several times I have taken damage attacking a HQ in the 1.3. I have never seen this before. Is this something new, or maybe a bug?

[Bill101]

Hi David

This has always been a possibility in SC2 but the default 1939 World at War scenario doesn't have it enabled, so I presume this must be either in a different scenario or in a mod?

In the editor HQs can be given defensive factors against all kinds of attack, so in some scenarios you may find that you will take a little damage.

[xwormwood]

Hi David

This has always been a possibility in SC2 but the default 1939 World at War scenario doesn't have it enabled, so I presume this must be either in a different scenario or in a mod?

...

I beg to differ, as i have experienced it as well in my actual game against jjr, multiple times my poor chinese suffered for attacking a not so helpless HQ.

But never before 1.03.

[david12345]

playing default 1.3, no mod

[Nupremal]

Aha you guys found a sort of bug/feature finally! I noticed it and spoke to Hubert, it was unintentional but I prefer it. Essentially, in the latest version you can do damage with a "0" as a result of other adjustments and random effects. In other words, a 0 is a low factor, but not nothing at all, so incidentals can cause damage.

[Scook]

I have to say, I prefer it. Even though I am on the short end of the stick, there should always be a chance at some minimal casualties. It also doesn't feel so "gamey" attacking an HQ knowing you won't take losses and build up experience.

[xwormwood]

I like it to.

I never was a friend of those "free" attacks.

"Its a feature, not a bug."

[Hubert Cater]

Looks like I may have opened a bit of a Pandora's box here with this bug.

There were arguments/mods in favor of having units with 0s in the applicable category not apply any counter damage via the +/- 1 combat modifier but I can see how some may like this.

I'm inclined to change it back unless this is very much preferable, let me know

[xwormwood]

I would like vote to keep it in the game.

[Cantona66]

I want it also!

[crispy131313]

I vote to keep it also. Even a military headquarters would put up a fight.

[CSS]

There was no such thing as a free no casualty attack. Historicaly NO headquarters unit was fully destroyed in WWII, even Stalingrad had sent out a core of officers to reform, and ABSOLUTELY no headquarters was destroyed by aircraft, as in this game they are often singly sniped out by human players. Headquarters may not be offensive units but certainly should have substancial defense.

I mean realisticaly what Army Group commander woould allow themselves to be destoryed without calling in ALL assets to save them?

[Nupremal]

I also vote keep it

[Armuss]

Hmm... But Artillery, Rockets etc. too have 0 defend. And too possible damage to atacker?

And other situations: Army attack to air-unit. Army attack to ship in port.

We need to rethink.

[Hubert Cater]

Armuss makes a good point and it was for situations like these that we initially had the code work the way it did, perhaps simply giving HQs defense values > 0 would do the trick.

The downside is that with the +/- 1 modifier HQs might give back a counter strike of 2 if their minimum is set to 1.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Units which are attacking can take "damage" purely in the form of general wear and tear (tanks break down, soldiers come down with a mass case of scrofula, etc.).

[Scook]

Heh, what John said ^^. Just going to post the same thing. I will also add, experience is a huge factor. Absolutly green units have about a 50/50 shot of taking a hit, whereas a 3 star or better unit hasn't taken damage from this, at least for me.

[xwormwood]

Hmm... But Artillery, Rockets etc. too have 0 defend. And too possible damage to atacker?

And other situations: Army attack to air-unit. Army attack to ship in port.

We need to rethink.

Why?

And why shouldn't they be have a slight chance to damage attackers?

I think SC would be a bit better with the current status of always giving the defender, even a 0 defender, to damage the attacker.

[SeaMonkey]

Gentlemen, this is about "friction", Murphy's Law, things happen, operational risks and hazards, "best laid plans", it is realistic.

You just never know when a human will surprise you, improvise and innovate a weapons platform to cause damage to an attacker, to oneself, its the natural chaos of battle, leave it, "as is".

[xwormwood]

Yes, agreed.

And wasn't "natural chaos" the way this feature went active in SC, too?

(sorry, Hubert)

:D

This again proves that you can't plan everything, neither in war nor in programming a war game.

:eek:

[Hubert Cater]

Looks like the forum has spoken

[xwormwood]

"So say we all".

[SeaMonkey]

Astute observation Xwood, about the "natural chaos", ....indeed...those with faith sometimes find things just seem to work out for the best.

[Big Al]

HQs should not be zeros. They should be 1 defense modified. The reason is vs the AI. Then the HQ becomes an instant XP box for the attacking player.

I suggested keeping HQs that can do damage. I modded mine to 1 defense vs all units to prevent this sort of exploitation.

[Baron]

I like the feature and I'd like to suggest another feature. If art. can fire in defense of adjacent land units then why can't ships? A naval task force certainly had the fire power that a Corps level unit has in this game. Just thinking out loud is all.