Welp

[Mord]

I am back...no longer a member of the Army at that. I was discharged. LOL...maybe joining the Infantry wasn't such a good idea at 39 after all (well now 40). I ended up being the third oldest guy in our entire company, only guys older were one private and a 1st SGT. It was really hard dealing with that.

So anyway to make a long story short, I contracted pneumonia and was in the infirmary for a week. I was sick for 15 days before they even diagnosed me...ended up staying sick for over a month...LOL by that point my will to become a 40 year old private kinda waned..along with any enthusiasm! Pile on top of that bunking with some of the stupidest, if not petty little bastards I've ever met...well it was just bad juju. I've been losing sleep knowing that 90% of those guys are gonna be out there carrying automatic weapons!

LOL you can only imagine my DS's attitude once I started the separation process...I went from pond scum to super pond scum! It was ONE miserable experience piled on top of another...especially the 5 weeks or so I was waiting to leave.

So...I am back, with a new love for life and freedom and the ability to put my hands in my pockets and say, sleep, shower, eat and drink what I choose, when I choose. It wasn't a total loss. I learned a lot, and will never take even the smallest, minutest of things for granted EVER again.

Thanks for all the well wishes before I left, and if I disappointed any of you guys I apologize...but I am not unhappy with the out come. It's great to be home and back on my computer!

Mord.

[missinginreality]

Mord,

Congratulations on having the courage and determination to see out a dream of yours and for the greater courage to admit that things weren't working out for you and to do something about it. Awesome man, well done. You went out there and gave it a go and came back with new found lessons on life; hell mate; I doubt you've disappointed anyone. I think you showed great determination and courage, good on you and welcome back Mord; respect to you for living your life.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Were there any good parts of the experience, other than the appreciation for freedom?

[theFightingSeabee]

Mord!

Glad to hear you're OK!!! If you remember, I was one of your biggest cheerleaders. But you have not disappointed me. Look, I went to boot camp at age 21, the older guys (between 30 and 35, no one older allowed) stuggled with Navy bootcamp, which is less physically arduous than Army basic. It's a young man's game. In my experience, it got MUCH easier as the years went on. Bootcamp sucks, then training afterwards isn't too fun either. Then getting to a unit sucks until you make some rank. But it's OK, at least you'll never live your life thinking you should've done something and never tried. You DID try! I'm proud of you.

And I know what you're talking about being nervous about a vast number of dumbasses with mg's. . It's the army, man, what do you expect? The navy and chair force have higher asvab requirements. Still, they're not nearly as bad as the Afghan forces. Our dumbest guys will beat their regulars any day. To be fair, just look back to when we were 18 or 19. We probably weren't nearly as versed as we are today.

No matter what, I'm glad you're back and I hope to see you jumping back into regular life again (albeit, with a new appreciation for freedom).

Take care, my friend, and I'll see you around the forums!

[ChrisND]

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

[Mord]

Thanks for the kind words MIR. I appreciate that. That's the one thing nobody can take away, I at least gave it a try, even if I quit. I am proud of myself for having went.

Seabee, yes you were a great cheerer for me I and I really dug all the support you gave me, you are a great dude and I am glad to know you here. And yes, the training I was gonna receive once I got into my unit was what was really gonna murder me...after all I am depreciating every day compared to heading towards my prime like the rest of those dudes. The actual training and attitude of the DS's were easier than I expected, though the running and standing at attention is what really took a toll on my knees (even more than when I do tree work). We were an experimental Battalion (High Speed Low Stress) so it wasn't near what I'd feared. The big let down was the camaraderie..the Army stressed Army values constantly yet I never saw them enacted from the pvts on up...our barracks was akin to Lord of The Flies and I saw a lot of stuff that turned me off...and some of it was DS sanctioned. It was like high school in El Salavador. There were a few good guys, not many, but even they wouldn't say anything when they'd see other pvts being hazed and harassed by their own. And the age difference made it hard to bound though there were a few kids I really liked and who are gonna make outstanding soldiers.

And the freedom thing...man just being able to walk outside is amazing! LOL. For three months I couldn't step out the door unless I had permission...it really makes you realize how much tiny stuff matters.

PvtRyan, yeah, there were some other moments that I'll remember as being pretty cool. The gas chamber was pretty wild even though I had a yard of snot hanging outta my nose when I exited. Climbing and descending on the outside of this big wooden tower was a rush...and I got to touch and carry a lot of the weapons we have in the game; M4, SAW, and 240...not to mention I got to see some Strykers on the move, and saw every Army vehicle that the game features. I watched and participated in some tactics for how you position yourself when firing on the move and stuff (never actually fired my M4 though). I was around for a night fire when they shot the SAWs and 240. Actually missed the things I wanted to see most though, 50 cal and AT4. But for the most part it was a crappy experience...but I am sure that part will fade with time as it usually does in life and only the neat stuff will remain.

LOL right now I am shell shocked and trying to re-adapt to being able to sleep alone in a room and all that ( I am having a hard time adjusting to that)...it's really strange...I've only been home since Thursday night...I keep expecting to get hollered at for something. It's pretty cool being able to actually chew my food now too!

Mord.

P.S. @Normal Dude; I may need to print that one...very nice...thank you.

[MarkEzra]

Glad your back and your senses are restored....Rememeber I pleaded with you NOT to take the "Camo Acid"

[purpheart23]

At least you tried Mord. Basic training is definitely not what it used to be. You were definitely very courageous for trying to tackle this thing at your uh...."advanced age"? Anyways welcome back and hopefully we can get you to crank out some more mods for us.

[theFightingSeabee]

Glad your back and your senses are restored....Rememeber I pleaded with you NOT to take the "Camo Acid"

:D

Mord, sorry to hear about that. Bootcamp was a little rough for me, but as soon as it got too "Lord of the Flies", our RDC's (drill instructors) jumped on it hard. Basically, the black guys found out that the white recruit leader (the guy they appointed to be the lead recruit) was an ex skin head. They all met together in the back at night and had black-only meetings and were planning on hurting/killing him in his sleep. The whole thing was knuckle-headed to the core. In the end, we were all a singular team and mixed well. The comraderie was definitely there after the first 6 weeks. I guess it takes about that long before everyone's egos are small enough to put the team first.

Standing up for 15 or more hours a day really hurt me too. The front half of my feet were almost completely numb for 6 months after bootcamp. The bathroom situation of 4-5 working ****ters for 90 guys wasn't any fun either. All this stuff you're saying is bringing me back, so sorry to rehash fresh memories for you!

But, now that's all behind us, and as you said, we tend to remember the good times and let the bad stay behind. I am glad to hear that at least a few of those guys are alright and going to make good soldiers. Too bad you didn't get to shoot your rifle, but sounds like you did get to see some cool stuff!

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Welcome back Mord! I don't think you disappointed anybody, we're glad you tried, and we're glad to have you back.

[Bigduke6]

Mord,

Welcome back to the world, and congratulations on having taken your best shot! I know you're disappointed now, but trust me, five or ten years from now you're going to be positive you made the right decision on health reasons alone. If it's life or death or your family, ok, you sacrifice your health, but not for something like this.

Also, don't take the drill sergeant attitude to your separation too seriously. Their job is motivate the recruits any way they can, and with you bailing out on legitimate grounds, it's a no brainer for them to paint you as the worst human being since about Hitler. It's all a show for the other recruits, to scare as many of them as possible into staying in.

Another thing to remember is, and the drills deny this, but a recruit lost really sucks for them, this is the Army after all and they keep a count on how many drops a drill gets in a class, and the more drops as far as the Army is concerned the worse the drill sergeant, and yes that goes into his permanent record. They get nothing for producing say a platoon of the greatest soldiers in the world, the system doesn't care, all it wants is warm bodies up to the standards.

Sure, the drill sergeants say they are there to turn you into great soldiers and if you don't make the grade they'll bounce you out, as the Army is an elite organization that allows only the best in. But they're pretty much lying through their teeth, as you have seen the average basic training recruit is nothing for the nation to be proud of.

And the thing is, every time a drill sergeant fails to get a recruit up to standard, that gets written down and if it happens to often the drill sergeant doesn't get promoted. It's a big corporation and that's how big corporations work. So if the drills yelled at you, hey, it sucks to be them. They're still in and you're out, heheheheh.

Lord of the Flies in the barracks, huh? Kind of makes me wonder if standards are slipping (actually, I know the answer to that) or maybe this is what you get when you recruit for actual wars.

When I went through us recruits pretty much hung together, and frankly if you did what the drills wanted they more or less left you alone. There was talk of blanket parties from time to time but for the most part the privates tried hard and if any of the guys tried to make trouble - you know, tough kid from the block - the drills saw it pretty fast and straightened him out faster.

I kinda wonder why that didn't happen in your platoon, maybe you got a couple of sloppy drill sergeants, or maybe the pressure to get warm bodies into the system is so intense, that that plus "and there's a war on" has either eroded the standards or upped the allowable unit violence level.

What scares me is kids like this getting sent to an absolutely foreign place, can you imagine what Iraqis and Afghans make of such teenagers? Wouldn't be a big deal if it was a proper war where you just had to kill the enemy, then kids like this are just cannon fodder and if they die themselves no big loss to the society. But if the point is hearts and minds...

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed you didn't make it through, a mature guy like you probably would have done some good over there. But like I said, unless you or your own family is under a direct and imminent threat, a man's health comes first. I think you did the right thing from start to finish, glad to have you back.

[Holman]

Joining the army at 39? I'm late to this story, but I think you should write a book about it! All sides of it--idealism, disillusion, making sense of it afterwards--would make a great discussion. Give it some time, but write it all down eventually, even if just for yourself.

Congratulations to you for going, enduring, and seeing it clearly all the same.

[purpheart23]

Mord,

Welcome back to the world, and congratulations on having taken your best shot! I know you're disappointed now, but trust me, five or ten years from now you're going to be positive you made the right decision on health reasons alone. If it's life or death or your family, ok, you sacrifice your health, but not for something like this.

Also, don't take the drill sergeant attitude to your separation too seriously. Their job is motivate the recruits any way they can, and with you bailing out on legitimate grounds, it's a no brainer for them to paint you as the worst human being since about Hitler. It's all a show for the other recruits, to scare as many of them as possible into staying in.

Another thing to remember is, and the drills deny this, but a recruit lost really sucks for them, this is the Army after all and they keep a count on how many drops a drill gets in a class, and the more drops as far as the Army is concerned the worse the drill sergeant, and yes that goes into his permanent record. They get nothing for producing say a platoon of the greatest soldiers in the world, the system doesn't care, all it wants is warm bodies up to the standards.

Sure, the drill sergeants say they are there to turn you into great soldiers and if you don't make the grade they'll bounce you out, as the Army is an elite organization that allows only the best in. But they're pretty much lying through their teeth, as you have seen the average basic training recruit is nothing for the nation to be proud of.

And the thing is, every time a drill sergeant fails to get a recruit up to standard, that gets written down and if it happens to often the drill sergeant doesn't get promoted. It's a big corporation and that's how big corporations work. So if the drills yelled at you, hey, it sucks to be them. They're still in and you're out, heheheheh.

Lord of the Flies in the barracks, huh? Kind of makes me wonder if standards are slipping (actually, I know the answer to that) or maybe this is what you get when you recruit for actual wars.

When I went through us recruits pretty much hung together, and frankly if you did what the drills wanted they more or less left you alone. There was talk of blanket parties from time to time but for the most part the privates tried hard and if any of the guys tried to make trouble - you know, tough kid from the block - the drills saw it pretty fast and straightened him out faster.

I kinda wonder why that didn't happen in your platoon, maybe you got a couple of sloppy drill sergeants, or maybe the pressure to get warm bodies into the system is so intense, that that plus "and there's a war on" has either eroded the standards or upped the allowable unit violence level.

What scares me is kids like this getting sent to an absolutely foreign place, can you imagine what Iraqis and Afghans make of such teenagers? Wouldn't be a big deal if it was a proper war where you just had to kill the enemy, then kids like this are just cannon fodder and if they die themselves no big loss to the society. But if the point is hearts and minds...

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed you didn't make it through, a mature guy like you probably would have done some good over there. But like I said, unless you or your own family is under a direct and imminent threat, a man's health comes first. I think you did the right thing from start to finish, glad to have you back.

Spot on with your evaluation of standards slipping. I would go as far as to make the comparison to that of the wehrmarcht in late '44. I was in recruiting 05-08 and every couple of months they would come out with some new regulation where the recruits could be fatter, or not score as well on the asvab. Started doing more felony waivers across usarec. It felt like murdering the Army that we had come to love. Yes love. I am a lifer. I understand and have seen first hand the quality of recruit that Mr. Mord is talking about. Sucks to say.

[MehMan]

I wonder what's it like in the British Army...

[Mikkey]

Welcome back Mord! I looking forward for your new mods!

[Apocal]

For Mord, at least you tried, which is more than most people can say.

For those who commented on their own experiences, you may be viewing things from rose-tinted glasses and seeing them as you wish, rather than has they were.

[Meach]

The british army is very very harsh. Certainly each year standards slip and now the old hands refer to it as the "poof's army"

This is only in comparison to the days where NCO's could actually slap you about. It was frowned upon but it happened. I found most of the staff sadistic and for a volunteer army the soldiers were generally treated worse than criminals. Ok, there are exceptions with good staff but usually these guys are rare. The quality of training is superb but at a price.

[MehMan]

Oh well, there goes my idea of joining the british army. My yugoslav roots and lack of british accent would probably lead to my ass in pieces.

[Meach]

It's hard to tell. Each platoon differs from the next. Us Brits had a very hard time in Yugoslavia and a lot of bad memories. Maybe not the best career move but it's your spirit and strength of character that counts.

[Falconander]

I would not be so quick to knock our recruits. They come from every walk of life and each have their own story and background. When I was in I had many different people from those opting out of jail time, people needing the college money, country boys eager to pick up a gun and people just trying to change their lives.

I might say it pisses me off when people say recruits are what they used to be. Well I would say keep politicians out of training. '

I laughed when people were horrified of Blood Wings and they showed the poor recruits having their wings pounded into their chests so that the metal spikes were driven into their chests. They displayed this all over the TV and probably quickly squashed the practice.

Holy crap, that was probably one of my fondest memories. Rights of passage were what you drove for. Politics is sissying up the system but don't blame the freakin recruits.

In Ranger Batt it was worse than basic training, but you knew this going in. It wasn't the hazing or grueling training you went through that was unbearable, at times it WAS a member of your platoon. It sucked paying for your brothers sins all the time but eventually the problem would self correct as the platoon would put "pressure" on the weaker elements to come in line.

I remember one guy who was put in a sleeping bag, 100-mile-hour taped and hung upside down out of a 2 -story window... he dropped out....

But than you have to know someone has your back, which sucks when you can't be sure.... take the Rigger (guy who packs your chutes) at Ranger Batt who decided he wanted to be kicked out. So he took 550 card and wrapped it around 5-6 main chutes.

Problem is you jump at 600 feet at Ranger Batt not the traditional 800 feet. At 600 feet there is not much time for a reserve to deploy. Luckliy for these guys who got the "bad" chutes, none of them died. Lots of broken bones but they managed to burn in with their "cigar" rolls.

Anyone is "green" in the beginning but give them some training and throw them into a "real" situation and it is amazing how the "misfits" are sometimes the ones that rise to the top

Many of the guys labelled early on had my SIX better than I could have ever imagined.....

[Falconander]

One of the stories I remember reading about "unfit" trainees happened while I was in. A "chubby" female national guard member threw a sergeant on the ground and jumped on top of him as the blast happened. Rounds were cooking off left and right and the sergeant said this act saved his life. He said he had a new respect for national guardsmen and women in the military after this incident. When he got up he saw that the woman had given her life to save his when just moments earlier he was questioning her role in the military in his mind.

Here is the story of the crash but not of the sergeant...

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/25/us/gi-death-toll-at-20-in-air-base-crash.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/M/Military%20Aircraft

The death toll rose to 20 today and is expected to go higher in the aftermath of a midair collision between two planes at Pope Air Force Base on Wednesday that sent a fighter jet skidding into hundreds of paratroopers preparing for a training flight.

A day after the accident, which also left more than 90 soldiers injured -- many of them with critical burns over most of their bodies -- military officials had no explanation for the collision of a F-16D fighter plane and a C-130 Hercules transport plane, both of which were apparently trying to land at the same time on the same runway. The planes collided in midair less than 300 feet above the ground, sending the fighter caroming into the paratroopers and the C-141 transport they were preparing to board.

The main focus of activity today was on providing treatment for the critically burned soldiers, 20 of whom were airlifted to the Army's burn unit at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. A few were too maimed to be moved, said officials at Womack Medical Center here. Death Toll Is Seen Rising

Maj. Bill Chapman, chief of general surgery at Womack, said the soldiers had sustained extraordinarily serious injuries from both the fireball created by the explosion of the transport's fuel tanks and the quantity of smoke and toxins they inhaled. He said it was almost certain that the death toll would rise. About a dozen soldiers, including some of the burn victims, had leg injuries so serious that amputation will be necessary in several cases, he said.

"We're talking about charred skin and full-skin burns," said Dr. Chapman noting that 20 to 25 of the injured soldiers were burned over 60 to 90 percent of their body. "When you're talking about burns over 60 to 90 percent, there's a very high mortality rate because of the risk of infection even at the best burn centers, and Brooke is in that category. The death toll will rise."

He said inhalation injuries compounded the damage for the soldiers who had found themselves engulfed in a fireball of smoke and flame after flying metal punctured the fuel tanks of the C-141 transport sitting on the runway. The Hercules transport landed safely, and the two pilots aboard the fighter ejected after the collision.

"Usually, you have inhalation burns from, say, a housefire when people are inside," Dr. Chapman said. "But from what I've been told, this fireball just enveloped them in toxic fumes and gas fumes even though they were outside." Base's Highest Death Toll

The Air Force said today that a special investigative board would be convened to study the accident, which caused the largest on-base death toll in Fort Bragg's history.

Sgt. Kirk Boyd, an Air Force spokesman, said the board will be made up of officers from bases other than Pope. There will be no preliminary report on what went wrong, he said.

The accident occurred as paratroopers were preparing to load the C-141 at the Green Ramp, which is a quarter mile to a half mile from the single 7,500-foot runway at the 1,695-acre airfield. It is a procedure repeated 20 to 30 times a week here.

After the midair collision, the F-16 crashed to the ground and skidded across the runway toward the paratroopers at about 180 miles an hour.

Today, as investigators began combing through the wreckage, the scorched hulks of the planes and the charred jump packs of the paratroopers served as a gaunt reminders of the disaster that sent hundreds of soldiers running for the lives. About 500 military personnel were in the area of the accident.

The base's flight operations were canceled today and flags flew at half-staff. But Sergeant Boyd said no changes in procedures for flights and aircraft loading were expected. He said that because of the small size of the airfield, which is surrounded by Fort Bragg, paratroopers cannot be loaded onto planes much farther from the landing strip than the ramp where the accident occurred.

"We've got no place to grow," he said. "The Green Ramp the 141 was on is probably 100 to 150 yards from the edge of the base."

Worried family members flew in today from across the nation, sometimes to comfort the sick, sometimes to mourn the dead.

Mack Peters and his wife, Maile, arrived from California to be with her son and his stepson, Roland Alika Souza, a 27-year-old sergeant who was in intensive care with lung damage, internal bleeding and a punctured liver. He could not be moved because of the severity of his injuries. 'It's So Hard to Take'

"You expect them to have some risk in the military, but not in the training," Mr. Peters said. "That's why it's so hard to take."

Their military escort, Staff Sgt. Ivan Stone, said: "We in the unit are all so worried about him. He's what we call in the military a hard charger."

Survivors portrayed a scene of horror: soldiers running for their lives, sometime trying to drag fallen comrades along with them, as they felt the heat of the fire bearing down on them and heard the sound of ammunition popping from the scorched plane.

Photo: Paratroopers were about to board this C-141 transport on Wednesday when a jet fighter struck it after colliding in midair with another transport at Pope Air Force Base, N.C. (Associated Press/Fayetteville Observer-Times) Diagram: "How the Accident Happened" F-16 and C-130 collide in midair at northeast end of runway. Damaged C-130 lands safely on runway. F-16 spins out of control and crashes on tarmac; pilots eject safely. Burning debris from F-16 careens into parked C-141 transport plane, causing its fuel tanks to explode.

[Falconander]

Started a new thread to talk about this crash and included the acts of heroism that were demonstrated by both veteren and trainee soldier alike....

http://www.combatmission2.com/community/showthread.php?p=1130260#post1130260

[Clavicula_Nox]

Spot on with your evaluation of standards slipping. I would go as far as to make the comparison to that of the wehrmarcht in late '44. I was in recruiting 05-08 and every couple of months they would come out with some new regulation where the recruits could be fatter, or not score as well on the asvab. Started doing more felony waivers across usarec. It felt like murdering the Army that we had come to love. Yes love. I am a lifer. I understand and have seen first hand the quality of recruit that Mr. Mord is talking about. Sucks to say.

Yup, my brother in law who has a massive criminal record, no GED, and is stupid beyond all belief can get in; while I, a 2x Iraq veteran and Afghanistan veteran with 3 badges on my chest, a 13-rack, and one R-tab on my shoulder can't re-enlist because of a dirty 4 letter acronym beginning with a P and ending with a D in my medical records. Bastards.

Mord, I'm both sorry and glad of how things turned out. Sorry because it is certainly one hell of an experience, but glad because...lol it is one hell of an experience.

[handihoc]

I'm glad you're back, Mord. Particularly as it means (I hope) that you can get back down to creating that longer radio-chat mod that you were talking about some months ago.

[Sixxkiller]

This is the main reason I got out of regular units. I mean if I had wanted to be stuck with gang bangers, racists, future serial killers, people who cant spell cat...etc, I would have just moved to Los Angeles and worked at Taco Bell.

But ya, at 39 (I am 39 btw) going 11B probably isnt a good choice. Not just the physical part but also "a lot" of the men our age can't relate to the kids of today. And seeing how you are of such low rank with them, you can't use the good ole I outrank you mentality to keep some sense of order, not that a lot of them care anymore. Hell most of them are there to get that whoppingly huge paycheck!!!

But back in 88 when I went in it wasnt any different though, just then I was on the side of the fence.

Welcome home Mord.