Preview @ Out of Eight

[allenj7]

You are correct about WEGO. My only issue with it is that you watch the same thing twice (once when it is resolving it in real time, and again when it replays it automatically). In this sense, playing WEGO could take twice as long if you choose to watch the replay.

[Klavan]

Originally posted by panzermartin:

Map editor sounds like a lot of fun.......I expect zillions of custom maps soon available. Google earth will be our guide

I share the same feelings: Syrian terrain is already widely covered with nice resolution. Can't wait to start working on it.

[Michael Dorosh]

James Allen - first of all, welcome to the forum. Good to see a long time CM fan taking the plunge and posting in our world.

Secondly, thanks for posting your preview notes of CM:SF. Some extremely welcome information there for we humble masses.

Just to clarify one or two points, though, I wonder if I might ask

a) how much time did you actually spend with the game? You seem to have a lot of detailed knowledge but I wonder just how deep that could possibly go? I'm hoping the game nuances will be much more complex than can be learned in a weekend, particularly the new victory conditions as described by Steve here on the forums. Have you had a chance to talk to the beta team and get their impressions, or compare notes on scenario design, or are these all your own gut reactions?

how early a build was it?

If it was an early build, I'd be loathe about posting too much info too fast if only out of concern for stuff changing, even this late in the development stream. Of course, I was one of those kids that could never be bothered to lift the corners of the wrapping paper on the Christmas presents, either.

Some interesting previews up; the screenshots and comments at wargamer.com were especially interesting. I think most CMers will be like the average Missourian, though - "Show Me." In the meantime, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

[Kineas]

Originally posted by allenj7:

You are correct about WEGO. My only issue with it is that you watch the same thing twice (once when it is resolving it in real time, and again when it replays it automatically). In this sense, playing WEGO could take twice as long if you choose to watch the replay.

Actually (for me) it's not a problem, I usually watch a turn several times. At least I never skip it without seeing it once.

A time multiplier would be useful in this case, so your CPU could work on the turn at full power, shortening the 60sec period to its fraction. (It's also easy to implement) That would be comparable to the 'blue stripe' phase in CMx1.

[pad152]

How does the Quick Battle work?

1. Do you select a map from a list of maps?

2. Objectives selected by player or computer?

3. Selection of enemy forces player or computer?

[Steiner14]

80-90% of all the games I played from the first three CM games were random map games.

And mostly meeting engagements. Correct?

I also started to play random maps, after i knew all the CMBO scenarios on CD.

But then i started ladder playing and soon i was sick of the impossibility to adapt to the terrain.

So i started to look at the scenario depot and since that time, i never ever looked back at random maps.

Later, when ladder playing lost it's attractivity, because of the nature of all meeting engagements, unbalanced battles became more and more attractive.

What i want to tell you is, that you are missing a lot, if you play random maps. Good scenarios have so much intellectual work of the game designer in them, that the random map is like a blind painter compared to a good one.

IMO this will become even more true, with the much greater possibilities of scenario design in CMSF.

Every bet, soon you will have forgotten the random map generator.

[ May 29, 2007, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[Other Means]

I'd rather watch the turn than wait for it to process, then watch it. Seems a good choice for BFC.

I just wonder if it'll work on my steam powered PC, which probably can't DO a second/second.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[JaguarUSF]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

a) how much time did you actually spend with the game?

how early a build was it?

a) I got the game last Wednesday, so I played it for about 5 full days while writing the review. I played some scenarios that were available on the press FTP server and made seven myself where I tested out the different units and the victory conditions. Since it is just a preview, I wasn't able to sample any of the final scenarios, so a lot of that was based off the options in the editor that was fully working. It didn't come with any scenarios or the quick mission builder, so I couldn't test those. Previews are more of a "look at all of the features" sort of deal, so I went through the game and looked at the manual to make sure I talked about everything that was active in the game.

The build is the build, last updated May 28th (I also played builds from the 24th and the 18th of May).

[gibsonm]

So "allenj7" and "JaguarUSF" are in fact the same person?

[aka_tom_w]

just to be clear....

is allenj7 the same previewer JaguarUSF?

And you are saying you have official access to a legitimate preview beta of the latest build for promotional purposes and you are not under any Non Disclosure Agreement restrictions?

correct?

-tom w

[JaguarUSF]

Yes. I forgot my password for JaguarUSF so I had to create a new login called allenj7. Oopsy!

[pad152]

Here is how WEGO works:

1.While the game is paused, you issue orders to your troops.

2.The game plays for one minute in real time that can't be fast forwarded.

3.The game plays a replay of what you just saw that can be fast forwarded.

It sounds like 60 second pauseable RTS with a replay, CM1 games were just steps 1 & 3, why not just bypass step 2?

[gibsonm]

Well welcome to both of you!

I must say you are in an envious position, but at least there's only what seven weeks to go before we can all get our hands on it.

[JonS]

Originally posted by pad152:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Here is how WEGO works:

1.While the game is paused, you issue orders to your troops.

2.The game plays for one minute in real time that can't be fast forwarded.

3.The game plays a replay of what you just saw that can be fast forwarded.

It sounds like 60 second pauseable RTS with a replay, CM1 games were just steps 1 & 3, why not just bypass step 2? </font>

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by allenj7:

Expert:

Friendly units need to be spotted. This means you can lose contact with friendly units (and can't issue them commands or know anything about them) if you move them too far from their commander. That's pretty damn cool and it prevents people from covering a large portion of the map with token forces.

This sounds very interesting.

I can see the furor on the board now the first time players realise that:

1) they have "lost" their units; and

2) the "lost" units were wiped out to a man by the enemy without the player realising it;

[JaguarUSF]

Well, step 2 in CMx1 was done in the background right after you pressed the end turn button (the pause before the replay). In CMx2, it's done in real time on the screen.

I think it's funny if the enemy knows where your tank is but you do not

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by JaguarUSF:

I think it's funny if the enemy knows where your tank is but you do not

It's even funnier if you are the enemy.

[JonS]

Originally posted by JaguarUSF:

Well, step 2 in CMx1 was done in the background right after you pressed the end turn button (the pause before the replay). In CMx2, it's done in real time on the screen.

Sure, but you still (with CMx1) have to sit there watching the blue bar get longer. Might as well have something more interesting (in CMx2) to look at. No?

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JaguarUSF:

I think it's funny if the enemy knows where your tank is but you do not

It's even funnier if you are the enemy. </font>

[panzermartin]

Keeping unit communication will be cool. No more sneaky suicide teams going after your tanks behind enemy lines, or sharpshooters with god view of the opposing forces. Cutting an ememy force in the middle and isolating it would work as a tactic now.

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Andrew H.:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JaguarUSF:

I think it's funny if the enemy knows where your tank is but you do not

It's even funnier if you are the enemy. </font>

[Steiner14]

@JaguarUSF

How many email sends are necessary per turn?

A1: moves A1 - file with data A1 - email

B1: moves B1 - file with data A1+B1 - email

A2: comp. calculates A1+B1 + view R1 - moves A2 - file with data A1+B1+A2 - email

B2: calc. A1+B1 + view R1 - moves B2 - files with data A2+B2 - email

A3: calc. A2+B2 + view R2 - moves A3 - file with A2+B2+A3 - email

B3: calc. A2+B2 + view R2 - moves B3 - file with A3+B3 - email

...

1 turn / email?

[JaguarUSF]

Well, the units don't disappear per se, but they do suffer extreme morale penalties if they have no idea where anyone else is.

I think the e-mail thing is what you have up there. When it's your turn, you watch the previous turn, do your moves, and the last person who does their moves resolves the turn.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

See what you've started, Jaguar?

Great preview, very much appreciate you sticking around the forums. IIRC you did the same for EU3!