Thinking of buying this game...BUT...

[Cadmium77]

I've been hearing bad things about it, frankly. I like the Combat Mission concept...it's a serious bunch of wargamers and everything I've seen from this forum puts this game at the top of my list. Obviously it's not about Crysis level graphics though the graphics look good to me. It's about strategy and tactics in real time.

But now I'm hearing the pathfinding of the AI is poor.

Is this true?

What is the general verdict on this game? Should it be only a multiplayer game with single player vs AI just for practice and learning?

[thelmia]

Multiplayer broke. No buy until fix.

[Cadmium77]

Thank you sir.

But how is singleplayer? Is the AI any good? It seems like every single game, even my all time favorite, the Total War series has serious AI problems...

[MirabelleBenou]

Multiplayer is working fine in PBEM

It's real time on IP mode which is broke.

Singleplayer is good. The first missions are "easy" (well, the second one is very tought ) but the ennemy troops are not very good ones.

[CptWasp]

For me CMSF is the best game of 2007.

Buy it, this is my suggestion. You can play single player or PBEM; a patch will soon fix MP.

[stikkypixie]

Try the demo, easiest way to find out. For now the game is still a bit buggy though, once they're gone I think this will be a very enjoyable game.

[hoolaman]

Personally I think the demo is quite bad and doesn't really have missions that showcase the game. I would suggest waiting for the new demo with an extra mission.

[Philistine]

I'd suggest waiting for the new demo, as well.

The old demo is before any of the patches improving LOS, pathfinding etc., so it won't give a fair idea of how the game is playing now.

They say they will release an updated demo after the 1.05 patch is released--which should be soon. (Of course, they also said they would do so after 1.03 and 1.04.... ).

I'm also waiting on the newest patch (and demo) to see if I'll buy the game.

--Philistine

[ October 25, 2007, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Philistine ]

[Thomm]

Cadmium77,

it is very difficult to give you a bullet-proof recommendation! Perhaps the 1.05 patch will provide the final verdict for me!

For me, CM:SF is a lot more fun than any of the CMx1 games. I play it daily and download all of the user-made scenarios, something I never did for CMx1 (mostly, because I did not have the time to).

There are, however, moments when you want to pull your hair out; for me, these are currently mostly related to LOS bugs. Pathfinding generally works fine for me.

I get more and more convinced that the map designer at present has a big influence on the perceived quality of a scenario, because (s)he can either design around the current shortcomings (LOS in dense urban areas, LOS at ridges, ...) or emphasize them, even unintentionally.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Cadmium77]

Thanks for all the excellent replies guys. I'll wait for the next demo then and plan to buy it when the bugs are worked out. This game reminds me so much of the old Dunnigan hexagonal board game Firefight by SPI Wargames, except in 3D. In other words it's everthing I want from a S&T game;

1.I want a game to educate me in modern tactics and weapons systems so I'll walk away with a realistic idea of political events when I read about them in the news.

2. I want a convincing in game experience that challenges my mind

3. I want an infantile childhood fun of toy soldiers...

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by Cadmium77:

Thanks for all the excellent replies guys. I'll wait for the next demo then and plan to buy it when the bugs are worked out. This game reminds me so much of the old Dunnigan hexagonal board game Firefight by SPI Wargames, except in 3D. In other words it's everthing I want from a S&T game;

1.I want a game to educate me in modern tactics and weapons systems so I'll walk away with a realistic idea of political events when I read about them in the news.

2. I want a convincing in game experience that challenges my mind

3. I want an infantile childhood fun of toy soldiers...

My personal opinion: You'll get all of those. But I think you might want to wait. Personally, I think the pathfinding sometimes has serious issues, but the enemy AI is usually very good and it makes for a pretty hard game.

[Hertston]

The AI is less than stunning but that is made up for to some extent in the scenario design. Pathfinding is no worse than in any other RTS game (which isn't saying much). LOS issues are still a huge problem.

I doubt very much any of those will change significantly in 1.05 so if you fancy the game might as well buy it now. For all its faults there is no other product that offers what CMSF does.

[John Kettler]

Cadmium77,

Weapon effectiveness was overmodeled in Firefight, but it sure taught the basic lessons of modern warfare in a hurry. One example of overmodeling had to do with altering the Leavenworth maps to remove brush and water obstacles, both of which would've caused serious problems to wire guided ATGMs. Fun game, though, especially for a Soviet Threat Analyst! I loved Mech War 77 and eagerly awaited Mech War 2, only to find it unplayable.

AH's MBT was stupendously awful, starting with its core assumption of U.S. uberness, when in reality we were behind not just the 8 ball, but the entire armor/antiarmor pool table!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Withstand]

Cadmium77 CMSG after patch 1.04 is good.

If you like the realistic type of games like I do and you know that our kind of games are hard to come by then CMSF is one of those games that we yearn much.

Graphics may not be the prettiest around but it's a more brainy kind of game.

[Omenowl]

I find the game pretty fun. Yes, your guys do some stupid things and sometimes there are a few movement bugs. Generally, I find cover arcs work to compensate against the LOS issues (my guys seem to fire even though I can't manually target the enemy). I also find splitting squads helps for movement. Smaller units have less problems with pathing.

Overall the mod community is not fully developed (CMMODS is good for maps). This in my view is the biggest drawback at the moment. Once the mods becmome available for graphics, etc I think it will be much better.

Still compared to MW2 and DoW series I find this the most enjoyable of the games I bought.

[Panzer76]

Try the demo. For me, CMSF was amajor letdown with poor TacAI. Only way you can play any missions is by attacking (defending is a walk in the park) and most of them are also easy. IMHO.

[GSX]

Originally posted by Panzer76:

Try the demo. For me, CMSF was amajor letdown with poor TacAI. Only way you can play any missions is by attacking (defending is a walk in the park) and most of them are also easy. IMHO.

Agree with this. I found it interesting, at times fun and at others very frustrating. However, there is no real depth to it and it all became too easy for me to play. Spot target, unleash the Javelin, kill the enemy etc etc etc.

Still fun for a wee while though and its cheap enough to buy, play for a month and certainly get value out of it.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by GSX:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panzer76:

Try the demo. For me, CMSF was amajor letdown with poor TacAI. Only way you can play any missions is by attacking (defending is a walk in the park) and most of them are also easy. IMHO.

Agree with this. I found it interesting, at times fun and at others very frustrating. However, there is no real depth to it and it all became too easy for me to play. Spot target, unleash the Javelin, kill the enemy etc etc etc.

Still fun for a wee while though and its cheap enough to buy, play for a month and certainly get value out of it. </font>

[Commissar]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

Cadmium77,

Weapon effectiveness was overmodeled in Firefight, but it sure taught the basic lessons of modern warfare in a hurry. One example of overmodeling had to do with altering the Leavenworth maps to remove brush and water obstacles, both of which would've caused serious problems to wire guided ATGMs. Fun game, though, especially for a Soviet Threat Analyst! I loved Mech War 77 and eagerly awaited Mech War 2, only to find it unplayable.

AH's MBT was stupendously awful, starting with its core assumption of U.S. uberness, when in reality we were behind not just the 8 ball, but the entire armor/antiarmor pool table!

Regards,

John Kettler

Now that brings back memories. I actually had Avalon Hill's MBT. Of course I could never get any of my friends to play it. One look at the manual and they wouldn't even bother. Showing them the ASL rule binder would have given them a stroke. The best I could get them to play was Axis and Allies. Yeah, I know....lolAxisAllies.

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[MarkEzra]

Adam: Cadmium 77 said "It's about strategy and tactics in real time."

CMAK is a fine game but is WEGO only

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[MikeyD]

I got old favorite CMBB reloaded on my new PC after being without it since April. I've got to tell you CMSF has spoiled me, those three stiff little soldiers representing twelve, the tedium of the danged blue bar, always being able to guess that path the AI would take. I spent half my first game trying to use CMSF camera controls to move around the map! Sad to say, CMx1 has been grudgingly downgraded to 'a trip down memory lane' for me.

I think the AI's as good as the designer. Someone very clever or very practiced could do spectacular stuff with it. You could build a scenario to run the AI troops from conceilment to cover, feint, encircle, take up different defensive positions, bring its armor forward separately, booby-trap builings... but when a designer just lazily plops his defensive troops in place waiting to be overrun - that's really not the AI's fault.

[MarkEzra]

Hi Mikey: The CM:SF AI editor is proving to be a remarkable step forward in wargaming Scen design. Most scen designers, myself included, have just begun to use the various AI editor tools and it's multiple options. A single scen attack can come at you now 5 different ways with 8 different unit groups, multiple arty attacks...and your not going to have to see the enemy Battalion CO leading the damned charge anymore, either. I think one of the main reasons QB were so popular was that old CM scen designers could only make the AI come at you one way...ALWAYS. Now a scen can be far more Dynamic and far more re-playable. Something QB players really look for

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