Mac OS X only booting in 2003

[Wicky]

Mac OSX only booting in 2003

by Jim Dalrymple, jdalrymple@maccentral.com

September 10, 2002 6:05 am ET

Apple on Tuesday told attendees of Apple Expo Paris that its Macintosh computers would lose the ability to boot in the older Mac OS 9 operating system in 2003. While customers will no longer be able to boot their machines in OS 9, they will still have the option to run the OS in the Classic environment in OS X.

"We expect that 20 percent of our entire installed base will be using Mac OS X by the end of this year, making it the fastest operating system transition in recent history," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "Now it's time for Apple and our third-party developers to focus all of our resources exclusively on Mac OS X, rather than dividing them between two different operating systems."

Apple switched its default boot operating system at Macworld Expo in San Francisco earlier this year -- according to Apple, 75 percent of customers have chosen to keep OS X as the default operating system.

Appple said in a statement today that the company has an estimated 3 million Mac OS X users and expects to reach 5 million Mac OS X users -- or more than 20 percent of the installed base -- by the end of this calendar year.

"We're happy to see Apple take this next step to drive adoption of Mac OS X," said Kevin Browne, general manager of the Macintosh Business Unit at Microsoft Corp. "Mac OS X has really come of age with the release of 'Jaguar,' and we think the combination of OS X v10.2 and Office v. X for Mac provides our customers with the power and compatibility they're seeking."

Hang onto your old Macs CMers....

[MikeyD]

Hmmm, sounds to me like I won't be updating my old mac G3 for a very VERY long time to come! Why borrow trouble?

[Michael Emrys]

On the other hand, if you get a G4 now, you can avoid this problem for a little longer.

Michael

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

On the other hand, if you get a G4 now, you can avoid this problem for a little longer.

Yeah, it seems like a win-win decision for Apple. Push into the newer operating system and hopefully scare those not wanting to lose OS 9 into buying new computers now.

-Andrew

[Pzman]

If you want to wait, just get a used G4.

[goatwarrior]

After using MacOS X for a while, going back to OS 9 frustrates me. It's amazing how much of an improvement OS X is over OS 9.

I'd never go back.

[Gyrene]

OS X is far far better than OS9 and if it wasn't for CM & my PDA's 9 pin serial to USB adapter I'd use it full time.

Gyrene

[jeffsmith]

CM & scanning are the only things I still use OS9 for

when my scanner vendor

writes drivers for the scanner

CM will be the only thing

[jd]

If not for CM not working in classic, I'd be using OSX, 10.2 (Jaguar) is a pleasure to use.

[yunfat]

Here's to the next engine being openGL and OSX compatible.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by yunfat:

Here's to the next engine being openGL and OSX compatible.

Add my name to the list of folks using Jaguar (OSX 10.2)

If not for CM I would be using it ALL the time.

The only other "sticky" problem for OSX is Quark, it still is not worth trying to run in classic. So Quark is trying to get their act together too and offer an OSX version. some folks are optimistic for late this summer but to my knowledge there has been no official announcement.

If CMBB would run in OSX that would be a REALLY big deal for some of us.

oh welll I think it is mostly out of the question

-tom w

[jdmorse]

one werid thing is that Virtual PC runs SLOWer in OSX than with 9.2.2, that and CM are my only reasons not always to be in OSX

[Watson & Crick]

Did BFC ever say that an OSX patch for CMBB is completely out of the question?

[Pzman]

I don't think so, they would have to do some major, game engine changes. (Changing CM from Rave to OpenGL)

[Forgot the word Don't, doh]

[ November 12, 2002, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[LGMB]

I HATE OSX.

The more I hear people glorifying it, the more I hate it. It's Windows. All the way through, it's Windows. All those stupid little, 'My pictures' 'My Apps' etc. IT SUCKS. The system is totaly hardwired, making any kind of usefull change is imposible. It's slow, it's buggy, its FAT. It chews huge amounts of ram so it can make the 'dock' look nice, and make the icons big. All this does is piss me off. It can't propperally allocate RAM, causing any graphics programs (which CHEW RAM) to freeze and carsh constantly. I can't run Bryce 5 and Phototshop 7 at the same time. I've never had this problem in OS9. Did I mention how much the 'Users' feature DRIVES ME NUTS? Having all these %$##*&^ passwords is hell for someone on a LAN. And the way OSX always defaults all of your files to the frigging 'Users' folder, I can never find anything! I have to sift through folder after folder, looking at ten versions of the same program, auto updating while crashing becuase there's no ram and not running the right version of some god forsaken program as I'm waiitng an hour for a program to start while Java is freezing...

I CAN"T STAND IT. For example: I was using iMovie in clasic to make a little video, when BINGO, OSX took the liberty to autoupdate. The computer crashed and I lost my work. Another horror story is the way in OS9, I liked to keep all of my MP3s in one big folder, and then use the press a key and get the file scrolling function to retrive the file I needed. Well guess what? Firstly, OSX istalled TWO new copies of iTunes, and now asks me everytime I inadvertantly start up the wrong version, to fill out the 'setup form' Sound like WINDOWS? Secondly, OSX doesn't have a press key get word scroll function, so I can't do THAT any more.

I could go on forever, but I'll just say this: OSX is fat, slow, and clunky. It can't run ****. It's Windows.

[Makes The Jelly Judder]

I like OSX, hell Apple likes OSX, and the future for Macs is OSX. Apple really needed to update its operating system as the 9x system was so old i.e. no proper memory management, piss poor virtual memory ect. With Windows encroaching into all of Apples old markets i.e. graphics and design stuff, Apple had to act and OSX is the result and its pretty good.

Also OSX is not Windows, just ask the UNIX guy's what the differences are.

The dock may eat your memory but at least you won't run out of memory any more.

[kmead]

My, my, didn't take your anti-grumpy pills?

So far my transition to OSX has been very pleasant aside from the printers at work. I turned my Revb iMac in for 250 bucks towards my nice dual 867 and a 19" CRT. I am one happy camper!

As for it being windows, no, its just UNIX with a nice wrapper. I used to use UNIX all the time to run Alias Studio when I was in college, A bit clunky at the time but solid.

With enough Ram, preferably 2GB, all is well. I find it fast on my home machine and acceptable on my lowly 550 mhz single processor G4 at work. I rarely even use any classic apps of late.

I too would be OSX only were it not for CM and a few other apps. Would I prefer to have it be a bit more adjustable, yes, but at the same time I really like having completely separated work spaces for me and my kids. We all get to make the spaces what we want. Overall its a big thumbs up and I have so far suffered only one kernal panic, versus fairly regular crashes under 9.

Now if Apple would only update Classic Rave to allow CM to run under Classic....

Edited to say hi to MOM. Hi Mom. Off to the general forum for us

[ November 12, 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: kmead ]

[LGMB]

I'll gut myself before you see me running OSX 1.2

That system is buggy, clunky, fatty, and can't handle RAVE. Why use it?

[Hoopenfaust2]

Stop calling it "X"... its Ten goddammit.

I'm not going to use ten for awhile. No point. I've got a perfect system 9.2.2 (never crashes)

Freehand 10 is totally buggy and my Wacom tablet behaves inconsistently.

Maybe if the big solid modeling programs and CNC programs are ported for Mac os 10 then I'll totally switch but now my options are still small.

A big marketing scheme with Apple and OS 10 is the " I can run a whole bunch of apps at the same time." I could do that with 9. I can burn a cd and surf the internet and do e-mail...all at the same time.. its called RAM. OS ten requires gobs of it. No wonder its "so fast".

10 is still not faster than 9 (especially redraw) and if someone tells you different they've got a brand new mac and have never really used the OS 9 on that same machine.

I'm a mac geek and not a unix geek. Now it takes me hours to figure out a problem.

Follow the link

http://fqdn.com/switched.mov

I have the same opinion.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101:

10 is still not faster than 9 (especially redraw) and if someone tells you different they've got a brand new mac and have never really used the OS 9 on that same machine.

Well there you go. Of course OS 10 is going to be slower than 9 on older machines. I don't think Apple is really worrying about that. 10 is designed as the base for the Mac OS for the next decade, not as a patch for older machines designed to run 9.

I'm running 10 on a 333MHz G3 iMac. Most people would probably hate the experience, but 9 was causing me some grief in terms of stability, and since I've installed 10 last year I've had barely a peep of trouble. It's worth it to me, despite the slowness. If I had to use my iMac to make a living, I probably wouldn't have switched.

Anyway, I'm rambling but the point is in my experience, 10 feels just as fast as 9 on newer machines, and Apple never really designed it to run to its full potential on older machines. So I don't think it's fair to judge the OS based on its sub-par performance on an older machine. Of course, it seems performs just fine for me on my brother's 3.5 year old G4 tower, so this is all subjective.

I think that once that Apple releases its lineup for 2003, a lot of the griping about OS 10's performance will cease.

-Andrew

[LGMB]

Switch.com/pissed...

Hahah! Ain't it the truth....

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Add my name to the list of folks using Jaguar (OSX 10.2)

If not for CM I would be using it ALL the time.

The only other "sticky" problem for OSX is Quark, it still is not worth trying to run in classic. So Quark is trying to get their act together too and offer an OSX version. some folks are optimistic for late this summer but to my knowledge there has been no official announcement.

CM is the only thing making me boot into 9. There is an XTension for Quark that fixes the redraw problem in classic... or switch to InDesign which opens Quark docs with no problems

[Gyrene]

OS X is all about stability, which I don't get in OS 9.

I tried to install a USB MIDI adapter from Edirol and it took over 5 reboots in the OS 9 side and mucking around with OMD when it hooked right up in OS X.

OS X is faster than OS 9 when you consider that regardless of how many programs you have running things always run at the same speed - When's the last time you installed a program in OS 9 & surfed the web at the same time? Never. Remember burning cd's in OS9? Turn the settings down a bit and leave the room in case your presence disturbs OS 9.

OS 9 sucks and it hurts to say so, but it does. OS 8 sucks, OS 7.5 sucks. OS 6 was great - but that was 10 years ago.

Hating to "have to fix something in UNIX" is a lame excuse because if you have a proper install of OS X you don't need to do any trouble shooting anyways - No hunt & peck for trouble extensions or control panels.

The multi user set up means you can confortably let the kids & the rest of your family use your machine without you fearing an act of God.

Both my Rev D 333mhz iMac and my DP G4 533 run OS X fine, yes the iMac is somewhat pokey, but it doesn't crash anymore.

OS X is the best thing that has happened to the Mac since the use of PC standard parts.

LGMB: Bryce 5 is a pile of crap regardless of what OS you run it in.

Hoopenfaust: FH10 is a pile of caca too, on both sides - Sadly Macromedia treats FH as a red headed step child these days...Makes Illustrator look really nice. On the CNC stuff: Virtual Gibbs has pulled out of the Mac market 4 or 5 years ago and I don't think MasterCAM has any plans for a Mac version - The Mac is probably dead as a CAM platform anyway, so keep that old beige PowerMac handy.

Gyrene

[Fly Pusher]

The difference between OSX on an old G3 and a modern DP G4 are huge.Windoze users wouldnt even attempt to run XP on underpowered hardware. Yet Apple gives Mac users the option because of the longer life of their products and all people can do is whine !

Go DP. It'll bring a smile to your face.

[Lt. Kije]

I'm surprised I never hear anyone bring up this point: Why the continual upgrading of everything?

I happily run OS 9 on a 466mHz G4. I run FreeHand, Photoshop, the office suite from Redmond (ptui!), and five or so other weighty software packages just fine. Why must I buy a new computer every couple of years? A new operating system? A new version of Photoshop?

At what point does a fellow say, "Hold on a minute here. I'm simply being hornswaggled by the corporations into sending them a never ending stream of cash. I think I want to get off this treadmill."? New applications packages that need more processor power. New computer. More RAM. New operating system that pushes me to buy new versions of my existing software packages. More processor power needed! New computer! More RAM! New software packages! New! Bigger! Must upgrade!

Ach du lieber! Such clock!

My take on OSX is that it is push marketing. "You folks out there aren't adapting OSX willingly? Fewer than 20% of you are using it? Well, we'll see about that!" OSX has very little pull. If it had a powerful pull, more than 20% of Mac users would have made the transition. The only pull I can identify is the computer won't crash as often. The program may crash, but the computer will not. (Yes, I do understand UNIX. Started using it in 1980 and have used it a lot since then.) Where is the other pull? And my Mac running OS 9 doesn't crash hardly at all and even when it does, it's a minor irritation, certainly nothing to make me look at OSX longingly.

I, and some of the rest of you, still recall Word 6.0 for the Macintosh. No pull, all push, and boy did that change my perception of Microsoft. As much as I've loved Apple since one of the very first Macs ever sold showed up on my doorstep, my perception of the company has changed somewhat with this push to OSX.

I say it's a racket and I say the hell with it.

This is just my (apparently idiosyncratic) opinion. I am a little bit surprised that I never see anyone else voice this line. I guess it's just me being deviant again.

Hey. Wait. Isn't being deviant part of the Mac ethos? Maybe I should feel better about my deviance? Yes. I'm fine. I'm OK, you're obese. There. All better.

-- Lt. Kije

You're just angry because the voices don't talk to you.