Mac OS X only booting in 2003

[karch]

Great! It was bad enough with Mac vs Windows debates, but now there are OS9 vs OSX debates? Sheesh.

I agree that is you OS9 system is doing everything you want of it, don't change a thing until you have to. It makes all the sense in the world and will save you lots of money.

OSX is missing quite a few of the cool bells and whistles I used to use. Tabbed/popup windows. Man I used those all the time, and all the crap I put into the apple menu. There are workarounds for some, but not for all. The argument that they "Took out all the features" is not quite true. They just haven't had the resources to include every gadget into X that there was in 9. either Apple or developers will rectify that.

OSX is a little too slow on my G4 450 and awfully slow on my old iBook, but I can't stand to go back to 9 except when playing CM. It is more stable. Sure you can make 9 very stable if you are carefull with it, but X is stable even if you're not. Big difference.

If Motorola/IBM had been able to keep up with Intel/AMD, we wouldn't even be hearing these gripes about speed. It is a very visually intensive OS, taxing processors quite a bit, but if we had faster chips, this would probably be a non-issue. Not that I agree with every aspect of the new OS, I think is more consistent in just about every aspect, moreso than Window or OS9.

The biggest reason I've switched over to X is that I can talk to other computers far easier. I can VPN into clients networks that I used to need a Windows machine for, there are more and more great network apps that don't exist on 9. Sharing information and connectiing to OS9, OSX, Windows and Unix machines far easier is a very important thing to me than any of the shortcomings X has. It's not perfect, but neither was 9. I happen to like X much better than 9 ( and guess which OS will be around in 2 years).

[LightningWar]

The difference between OSX on an old G3 and a modern DP G4 are huge.Windoze users wouldnt even attempt to run XP on underpowered hardware. Yet Apple gives Mac users the option because of the longer life of their products and all people can do is whine !"

Define underpowered for a PC. Most likely at this stage in the game high powered for a Mac

What are you guys at 1.2Ghz? That was so 2001 And is not even really low end for a PC anymore.

Surprisingly XP if given enough ram. >256MBs seems to run pretty quick. Quicker than Win2K for the most part.

I still run Win98 for games, Win2K for my workstation, and XP on my laptop.

Well rounded

LW

[yunfat]

As a person who loves X all I can say is:

why the hate?

Apple isn't forcing you to change to X, you can use all the current mac hardware and your legacy software forever. If you love running quark, thats great. It's unfair for anyone to say they really don't like X unless they have tried the new OS thoroughly. I couldn't clone my HD before, I couldn't keep 35 apps running at once, and now my mac doesn't crash when I do stupid stuff. If you don't like the GUI, try using the terminal. UNIX is sooo powerful, and when you get used to doing stuff in the terminal, it seems like the world is at your fingertips. The dock works better than tabbed windows, the ability to use tons of UNIX open source stuff is great, the iApps get better and better, and still people complain. I don't get it, Apple isn't holding a Luger at your head with the grin of an officer in an SS polezei division... run OS 9 till the cows come home. Rave is gone because it wasn't an open standard, in this market we have to learn to cooperate, we need BOTH ati and nvidia in the future, and both are playing along nicely with openGL.

Basically what I am saying is, it's time to move on.

[Pzman]

Originally posted by LightningWar:

What are you guys at 1.2Ghz? That was so 2001 And is not even really low end for a PC anymore.

LW

Interesting, that my 300 Mhz G3 is a fast as the PIII 500 Mhz... IMO the 1.2 MHz Mac could be as fast as a 2 Mhz PC.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Panzerman:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LightningWar:

What are you guys at 1.2Ghz? That was so 2001 And is not even really low end for a PC anymore.

LW

Interesting, that my 300 Mhz G3 is a fast as the PIII 500 Mhz... IMO the 1.2 MHz Mac could be as fast as a 2 Mhz PC.</font>

[LightningWar]

Since the PowerPC chip processes twice as much data per clock cycle as a Pentium, a 1.25GHz (actual speed) G4 could actually be as fast as a 2.5GHz Pentium."

Dont believe the Apple propaganda machine. The G4 gets about the same IPC as an Athlon. Twice as much is a pipedream.

No matter how hard they try to create obscure photoshop benchmarks. The plain simple fact is. On everyday programs and applications the G4 is not anywhere near twice as fast as a P4. For starters up until the last couple of months the G4 didnt even have a DDR interface. It was living off PC133. That is memory bandwidth starved.

LW

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Lord General MB:

It can't run ****. It's Windows.

You apparently don't know what the hell you're talking about. It runs every app I have flawlessly and if you think it is Windows, you have never used Windows

[karch]

Originally posted by LightningWar:

Since the PowerPC chip processes twice as much data per clock cycle as a Pentium, a 1.25GHz (actual speed) G4 could actually be as fast as a 2.5GHz Pentium."

Dont believe the Apple propaganda machine. The G4 gets about the same IPC as an Athlon. Twice as much is a pipedream.

No matter how hard they try to create obscure photoshop benchmarks. The plain simple fact is. On everyday programs and applications the G4 is not anywhere near twice as fast as a P4. For starters up until the last couple of months the G4 didnt even have a DDR interface. It was living off PC133. That is memory bandwidth starved.

LW

Gotta agree with everything you said there. It might not look like it, but I'm a Mac addict. I've known the OSs inside and out since OS6. I love OS X and all it brings to the platform. I really think Motorola and IBM have hurt sales significantly. I don't know if the chip designs just wouldn't support the higher speeds Intel put out, or if they didn't have the money to throw at the problems, but the end results are processors that don't stand up well to the competition. They are good chips and fast enough for every day tasks and even really good serving tasks, but they are just not quite up to par.

Now this will change hopefully if we get the light version of IBMs Power 4 next year. I hope. I have an iMac, iBook, powerbook G3, 2 Powerbook 5300s as wireless webcam servers, a beige G3 running OS X server 10.2.2 and a 7600 with a G3 card in it for a Retrospect machine.. I love Macs. BUT I develope real estate software and you know what percentage of our clients use Macs... nearly zero. We have 1 client. As much as I love the new Ti Books, I think my next computer will be a Windows Laptop to help me test software better for clients. If things change and Apple gets more marketshare with my clients, I may be able to switch back again. Kind of a bummer day for me and I;ve really been frustrated with the whole Mac situation.

I think the OS is getting better and better, the hardware is great too (cept' for the processors) and there are more and more apps released since OS X. It's just too bad my client base will probably never make the switch. I sure hope I'm proven wrong and corporate america starts switching over to Unix. Then OS X would fit in nicely. Oh well. gonna go cry in my milk here.

gnight everyone.

[ianc]

Dear Mac'ers,

I'll start right off by saying that I've never used OSX. I merely read through this because I have an interest in computers and wanted to see what Mac lovers were saying about X. I have used previous versions and was never really too enamored of them though. I am always willing to try new things however: right now my machine is a dual-boot Win2K server\Red Hat 8.0 machine. Lately I've been spending more time in Linux than Win2K, and that should speak for itself.

My point in this rambling diatribe is that the thing that most irritates me about Linux and Mac users is that I believe they don't use their operating systems based on their respective merits, but rather because they hate Microsoft. And in my opinion, that's a pretty poor reason. Just because you're unhappy with the practices of Microsoft's marketing dept is no reason to denigrate the functionality or competency of its OS's.

For myself, I don't care what OS you use; they all have their upsides and their downsides. Why the hate? Why does a discussion of the benefits\disadvantages of OSX have to include the odd kick and jab at Windows? Mac users, famous for their supposed progressive thinking, should step back and practice a little more tolerance I think...

ianc

[Gyrene]

ianc, the reason that Mac/Linux users behave like this is simple:

They get treated like second class citizens (At best) by most retailers & manufacturers and are constantly having to justify their purchase to seemingly every friend, family member & passerbys.

This causes these alienated users to feel an even more extreme sense of loyalty to the flavor of OS.

It's like everyone in the world wants you to buy & drive a beige minivan when you want to drive something else - And then be treated like crap at every auto parts store & gas station you go to.

Gyrene

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by ianc:

My point in this rambling diatribe is that the thing that most irritates me about Linux and Mac users is that I believe they don't use their operating systems based on their respective merits, but rather because they hate Microsoft.

GONG, like one of those six ton Chinese gongs!

Being a Mac afficiando... perhaps it's like being a surfer- you either know it firsthand, or you don't understand the fanatacism. Does that sound like a cop out? Too damn bad. The fact is, this machine I'm typing on is the original, it has *soul*, it does it *right*, it's the OS of which that exact one you're using right now is just a cheap copy, and I do mean *COPY* LOL!!!

Sorry, but that's just the history of it, and to this day your umpteen bazillion flavors of windoze have that... what Frank Zappa called "Cheepnis", if I spelled it exactly right.

Mac addicts are people who *love* their computers, and spend sh*tloads of money on software and blah blah. There are *some* PC owners like that, but there are just as many PC owners who are simply people... who own a "PC".

I'm using Internet Exploder right now... I don't *hate* M$oft. Although I know for a fact that they're a bunch of a**holes who think it's cute to abuse monopoly power, I don't expend energy to think about it or argue with friends or whatnot.

Anyhow, if you want to grok it, rather than conjure convenient explanations for yourself, you'll have to own a Mac, use a Mac, until you see it for yourself. That's just how it is.

Oh! How ironic- but on the subject of *games*, well... you know, if that's what you want, other than CMBB (!) well, a high end PC has alot more to offer than Mac, that's just how it is too.

Eden

[ianc]

I don't *hate* M$oft. Although I know for a fact that they're a bunch of a**holes who think it's cute to abuse monopoly power

Yes, you're sounding extremely rational through here.

It's hard for you to separate your politics from your OS isn't it? Kinda too bad. For you...

ianc

[ianc]

ianc, the reason that Mac/Linux users behave like this is simple:

They get treated like second class citizens (At best) by most retailers & manufacturers and are constantly having to justify their purchase to seemingly every friend, family member & passerbys.

I've experienced this feeling too as a Linux user. But hey, you take that for granted when you switch to or use an OS that's not mainstream; it's part of the territory. It gives you the right to be vocal in your demands that you be given more support, but no more.

ianc

[LightningWar]

I really think Motorola and IBM have hurt sales significantly. I don't know if the chip designs just wouldn't support the higher speeds Intel put out, or if they didn't have the money to throw at the problems, but the end results are processors that don't stand up well to the competition. They are good chips and fast enough for every day tasks and even really good serving tasks, but they are just not quite up to par."

Actually the reason behind this is simple. The G3 and G4 are designed for embedded use. This means they require low power consumption and heat dissipation. Most of the G4s and G3 end up in switches and routers. I bet a small % of them end up in a Mac. So the gutz of the business for IBM and Moto are embedded uses. Apple is left with whatever time they can devope to ramping the chip. IBM and Moto could probably get the thing upto 1.6Ghz but it would eat alot of power and produce a lot of heat. But it wouldnt make a lot of sense for them to do this because the main aim of the chip wont buy that.

Apple made a poor deicision when picking the G3 and G4 as their desktop flag chips. Because the manufacturers of the chip are not interested in ramping the chip for Apples of purposes.

Now this watered down version of the Power4 should be interesting. The Power4 is a server class CPU with a lot of power behind it. But again in the big iron world clock speed doesnt matter as much as scaleability. Power 4 appears to scale(>8 procs) very well. But will Moto and IBM ramp the thing? Who knows.

LW

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by ianc:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don't *hate* M$oft. Although I know for a fact that they're a bunch of a**holes who think it's cute to abuse monopoly power

Yes, you're sounding extremely rational through here.</font>

[ianc]

Yes, they're assholes who consider it fun to destroy honest competition. No, I don't *hate* them- to be quite honest with you, Bill and his half arsed OS are *YOUR* problem, not mine.

Actually not. I form my opinions of operating systems based on objective factors, such as ease of use, availability of software, stability, compatibility with many types of hardware etc. You form yours on a dislike of Microsoft\Bill Gates.

The difference between us is that even though I'm completely convinced in my mind (having used both Win and the Mac) that Windows is in every way the superior OS, I don't sit and take cheap shots at the Mac just for the fun of it, or because I'm a political malcontent. From my point of view, you're perfectly entitled to use whatever you like and I'll respect your choice. All I ask is that you observe the same. This seems a little difficult for you though, since you're so insecure in your choice that the best you can do is sh*t on other people's choices to make yourself feel better.

It is probably foolish to debate this with you since fanatics and zealots are pretty much impervious to reason. Have fun with your Mac...

ianc

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by ianc:

You form yours on a dislike of Microsoft\Bill Gates.

No, I don't. You just can't handle that, can you?

If you were to approach that surfer I mentioned, a religiously fanatical surfer, which btw is by and large the only kind there is, and tell him that the *REAL* reason he surfs rather than play parcheesi is for Political Reasons, and why can't he separate his choice of sports from his politics, like you have, he would, I guarantee you, think you were a complete ass.

That is exactly what you have done here- you have the gall to tell me why I choose Apple and no other, as if you had the slightest idea who I am or what my history or qualifications or anything was.

Don't mistake this for an argument, or a debate, or an opinion which I am offering you. I am not asking, I am *telling* you, that we Apple afficiandos are privy to something which YOU DON'T GET.

You don't like Apple? Fine. You choose to take the self-serving delusional opinion that my choice is from politics rather than from the machine itself? That too even, is fine.

But to come here and publish your opinion on why *I* choose this machine is not fine. If you thought you had a problem with maniacal Finns, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Try and understand that your opinion is to me pathetically laughable- it reveals nothing so much as your ignorance, every bit as much as if someone were to tell you that the *real* reason you play CMBB is entirely *politics*- if you didn't have a political aesthetic problem with Tom Clancy's writing, you would really be playing that TC game-what's-it-called which has sold many more copies than CMBB and is therefore superior.

I don't sit and take cheap shots at the Mac just for the fun of it, or because I'm a political malcontent

The record says you are. I'm here precisely to defend against your assinine opinion on why *I* buy this machine and no other.

I'll respect your choice.

Go edit your post then, and remove the arrogance claiming that Mac users are making their choice for political reasons.

All I ask is that you observe the same.This seems a little difficult for you though, since you're so insecure in your choice that the best you can do is sh*t on other people's choices to make yourself feel better.

Pot calling the kettle black? We're here arguing because you've seen fit to sh*t on my choice.

In point of fact, an Apple owner's choice is an order of magnitude less of a political choice than a PC owners- we buy this machine because it is what it is, not because we need to get what the manager told us to, not because we think we won't have software, not for the bazillion *other* reasons a PC owner purchases a PC *other* than a true appreciation of the OS. How perfectly galling and ironic of you.

It is probably foolish to debate this with you since fanatics and zealots are pretty much impervious to reason.

Yes, you're foolish, no, we're not debating, yes, we are zealots and fanatics, many of us, and there's a reason for that you simply don't get.

If you don't care to hear the *reality* of why I buy this machine, then don't come here and float a self-serving delusional blimp of hydrogen explanation on whby *I* choose Apple here for me to shoot down.

Simple enough, eh?

Eden

[ianc]

Mr Smallwood,

I must say you're certainly slinging a bit of mud for someone who claims to be objective in their choices.

I made my claim that you aren't basing your evaluation of your OS of choice on any rational basis, but rather on your political dislike of Microsoft\Bill Gates because thus far you don't seem to have offered any concrete reasons why.

I am *telling* you, that we Apple afficiandos are privy to something which YOU DON'T GET.

I'm sure that's quite true. I'm also sure that PC\Linux users are privy to something which YOU JUST DON'T GET either.

Try and understand that your opinion is to me pathetically laughable- it reveals nothing so much as your ignorance

Try to understand that I may hold similar views on your opinion. The gist of your message seems to be that I'm claiming the only reason anybody would buy a Mac is for political reasons, and that I'm sh*tting all over them in my arrogance.

I think if you'll drink a little ice water and take the time to reread over my posts, you'll find not one instance of me making even one negative comment about Macintoshes. I think this is pretty telling actually, since you and others here have fouled Windows quite nicely. My comment about political motivation comes into play when people discussing Macs want to start bashing Windows without offering any concrete substantive reasons as to why they think Windows is an inferior operating system. They much prefer to hop on the 'different is better' and 'Bill Gates is an ass' bandwagon. It's so easy that way.

Too damn bad. The fact is, this machine I'm typing on is the original, it has *soul*, it does it *right*, it's the OS of which that exact one you're using right now is just a cheap copy, and I do mean *COPY* LOL!!!

Now tell me, after reading this, does it really sound like an honest opinion based on facts, or the splenetic ramblings of a zealot? The very fact that you're so upset about this means there's a little more on your agenda than an objective comparison of the merits of two pieces of code.

Me = guy who works in computer business, tried lots of different ones. Like Windows best for reasons of my own. Don't knock other's choices in computers or whatever as long as they respect mine as well.

You = guy who likes the Mac, considers it superior to everything else, and can't resist taking potshots and denigrating other OS's for vague and unspecified reasons. Must convert the world to your point of view or you won't be happy.

Just bashing Windows and Windows users for the hell of it with no real reasons listed is probably the most irritating thing about some Mac users. Think about it.

ianc

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by ianc:

I made my claim that you aren't basing your evaluation of your OS of choice on any rational basis, but rather on your political dislike of Microsoft\Bill Gates because thus far you don't seem to have offered any concrete reasons why.

That's hogwash right from the start, as I have been posting in *response* to your "claim".

Regardless, it is not my duty nor my interest to offer you those reasons. Many years ago, I quite likely would have made the attempt, as I used to.

These days, I don't attempt to explain the merits of Mac, neither do I attempt to explain Libertarianism, as both of these endeavours have proven futile in many experiments. I offered you some hand-waving hints on the matter (which you called zealous ranting), but with the qualification that in fact it can't be expressed any better than what is so great about surfing. Try it yourself, and perhaps you'll find it too. Otherwise, you don't know, and if you don't know, then consider not thinking you do, and if you still think you do, then at least don't come here and tell us you do. I know extremely well how and why I consider Apple the only OS for me, and I also know that the those reasons are too nebulous to express with the hope of changing any PC owner's mind.

That does not, however, in the least support the idea that I don't know what I'm talking about, neither does it mean I won't step to the plate when someone makes the preposterous claim that I insist on Apple because I hate Gates. Of all teh assholes in the world, there is not one single one of them who has the power to influence my choice of OS not even one iota. As if that would need explaining.

I'm also sure that PC\Linux users are privy to something which YOU JUST DON'T GET either.

Hardly. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Try to understand that I may hold similar views on your opinion.

Which opinion was that exactly? If you need refreshing, it is your opinion that I choose Apple because I hate Gates which I find pathetically laughable, indicative of delusional rationalization and belittling of people who choose differently than you, possibly explainable from envy. Not what's your view on my opinion of what?

you'll find not one instance of me making even one negative comment about Macintoshes.

I find it quite easily:

they don't use their operating systems based on their respective merits, but rather because they hate Microsoft

Yup, that's arrogant allright. Dense, too. Why don't you drink that glass of icewater instead, you may realize that when someone buys Apple, the "respective merits" of the machine are quite decidedly MORE to the forefront of their minds than in the case of PC. We *already* know that we will be the subject of ridicule, ("Apple? It's just a toy." is my favorite), we will have a helluvalot fewer cutting edge games to choose from, we won't have something compatible with the damn office, we'll have to hear people tell us that we choose Apple because we hate Gates, and on and on. As the other person said, we already know that we will be second class citizens. Golly, why would we do that?

Could it be that those "respective merits" are there notwithstanding your inability to see them? Nahhhh- it must be because we hate Gates. That's it. It fits perfectly, right? Yeah.

since you and others here have fouled Windows quite nicely.

I don't remember fouling Windows quite nicely in any kind of arbitrary and volunteered way. I *do* remember taking you up on your *demand* to know what I thought of your OS, which is exactly how I interpret your claim that I choose Apple because I hate Gates. How would you suggest I read that?

The very fact that you're so upset about this means there's a little more on your agenda than an objective comparison of the merits of two pieces of code.

You come into a thread with "Mac" in the title, explain that we choose our OS based on "political reasons" because, after all, the PC IS the "superior" OS, so there must be *SOME* weird reason why people choose Apple... and then you talk about MY AGENDA??

Me = guy who works in computer business, tried lots of different ones.

Yeah, me too.

Mac, Unix, Amiga, Silicon Graphics, Cray, nCube and some other parallels I can't remember the names, and I've programmed all the above with exception of Amiga... and I'm probably forgetting some. Ha! I just reread that and realized I missed the whole point- yes win-this, win-that, and yes I worked programming on win too. Never again. I have been, (maybe again?) a freelance programmer... Macintosh *ONLY*. BS in CompSci from UCDavis, two years at U of Chicago, a year of post grad compsci at UCSD.

Like Beetlejuice said, "So whadday think, ya think I'm qualified??"

Don't knock other's choices in computers or whatever as long as they respect mine as well.

I think the record differs with you.

You = guy who likes the Mac, considers it superior to everything else, and can't resist taking potshots and denigrating other OS's for vague and unspecified reasons.

I resist it extremely well, and very often. I will definitely step in to refute someone who is badmouthing Apple and doesn't know what they're talking about; that seems reasonable to me.

Must convert the world to your point of view or you won't be happy.

No, I gave that up many years ago- how about you?

Just bashing Windows and Windows users for the hell of it with no real reasons listed is probably the most irritating thing about some Mac users.

You're stuck with that. No, no... not from *me*, but that will be a fact for along time. Kinda like surfers, kinda like Finnish soldiers maybe, kinda like CMBB players would be if they were surrounded by Tom Clancy players who thought they were superior.... Bummer, dude. But in the future, if you have a problem with some Mac guy, how about taking it up with him personally rather than espouse some offensive and ludicrous theory on why Mac users in general use Mac? Yeah... how about it? Then I could get more scenarios in before bedtime, ok?

Think about it.

No, you think about this:

they don't use their operating systems based on their respective merits, but rather because they hate Microsoft

Eden

[ianc]

OK, as long as this thread hasn't been locked up yet, I'll take the opportunity to mimic your annoying habit of taking a small bit of my message out of context, quoting it, and posting a largely unrelated and slanted response. Right then, let's begin, shall we?

Regardless, it is not my duty nor my interest to offer you those reasons. Many years ago, I quite likely would have made the attempt, as I used to.

These days, I don't attempt to explain the merits of Mac

Right, why bother when you can just bash Windows mindlessly then say you're not going to defend yourself? It's so much easier when you don't have to think, just spew bile, isn't it? But hey, 'different is better', right? Isn't it? RIGHT?

but with the qualification that in fact it can't be expressed any better than what is so great about surfing. Try it yourself, and perhaps you'll find it too. Otherwise, you don't know

If you'd care to reread (or if you've ever read) my posts, you'll see I have tried the Mac, and in my personal opinion, found it wanting. Not that this means it's bad for anyone else. Which is the entire thrust of my point. I'm happy with any choices people want to make for themselves. You aren't. And why do you keep mentioning surfing? I don't care about surfing.

neither does it mean I won't step to the plate when someone makes the preposterous claim that I insist on Apple because I hate Gates. Of all teh assholes in the world, there is not one single one of them who has the power to influence my choice of OS not even one iota.

Excellent. Glad to hear it. So where's all that stepping to the plate then? All I see is some excuses about how it's not your duty to hold the bat. Certainly a claim as preposterous as all that deserves some debunking, right?

you'll find not one instance of me making even one negative comment about Macintoshes.

I find it quite easily:

quote:

they don't use their operating systems based on their respective merits, but rather because they hate Microsoft

Nice try, but no. That isn't a comment on Macintoshes, but about some Macintosh users. Specifically you. I know that's a bit subtle for you, but try to bear with me, eh?

I don't remember fouling Windows quite nicely in any kind of arbitrary and volunteered way. I *do* remember taking you up on your *demand* to know what I thought of your OS, which is exactly how I interpret your claim that I choose Apple because I hate Gates.

Excuse me, but I'm not following you here. I don't really care what you think of Windows. It's obvious you don't like it and it's obvious I'll never change your mind about it. It's not even worth trying. My point is that I'm sick of people bashing Windows who are too lazy\stupid to back up what they say. People bashed Windows needlessly in this thread, so I said something about it. Quite politely and reasonably too I think you'll find. If it's not too much bother for you to actually read my post...

You = guy who likes the Mac, considers it superior to everything else, and can't resist taking potshots and denigrating other OS's for vague and unspecified reasons.

I resist it extremely well, and very often. I will definitely step in to refute someone who is badmouthing Apple and doesn't know what they're talking about; that seems reasonable to me.

Your very first post in this thread would certainly give the lie to that statement. Go back Smallwood, go back and reread this thread. You'll find that the first stone was indeed cast by a Mac user. You'll also find that I still haven't badmouthed Macintoshes, only some overzealous Macintosh users who refuse to think rationally and subjectively, or just won't because they claim it's too much trouble. That group would obviously include you.

Just bashing Windows and Windows users for the hell of it with no real reasons listed is probably the most irritating thing about some Mac users.

You're stuck with that.

And you're stuck with guys like me who won't let you take the easy way out and just bash everything you feel like without being prepared to defend yourself, aren't you?

But in the future, if you have a problem with some Mac guy, how about taking it up with him personally rather than espouse some offensive and ludicrous theory on why Mac users in general use Mac?

Actually no, I prefer to take it up here so the general public can see what an ass he's making of himself. Might make him think twice before spewing such crap in the future.

The fact is, this machine I'm typing on is the original, it has *soul*, it does it *right*, it's the OS of which that exact one you're using right now is just a cheap copy, and I do mean *COPY* LOL!!!

Again, I want to thank you for such a well-reasoned and logical critique of all the things Windows does wrong. Think about it...

ianc

P.S. I'm typing this from Konqueror in Linux BTW...

[Eden Smallwood]

Snip on all your bull****; I've lost my patience with you, largely due to your insistence that you know who I am better than I do. You don't like to be quoted eh? Fine- this is it:

In a nutshell, you say someone bashed Windows. Your response was to claim that Mac users actually choose Mac because they hate Microsoft, a claim which both insults Mac users as a whole and carries a direct implication that we would choose WinSuperior OS if we could just get off our prejudice. You made no effort to restrict yourself to speaking with that specific alleged person, but rather chose to make an insulting comment to the world on Mac and Mac users in general.

In doing so, you should expect a rebuttal from *any* Mac user who doesn't feel like letting that go by. That would include me.

I really don't care what some other alleged person said which WinRuffled your WinPanties- between you and me, YOU are the instigator who insulted me and my OS.

YOU insulted ME AND MACINTOSH. THAT was the beginning FOR ME.

Since that time, I have attempted to correct you, something I feel quite adequately qualified to do, compelled to do, and have a right to do, since your claim concerns how *I* choose my OS. You insist on interpreting my defense as some attempt to make you dump your Win machines, apparently so that you can continue to tell me that I, unlike you(!), need to change the world and other people's choice of OS. You repeatedly, and continue to, have the gall to pretend that you know who I am and why I choose Macintosh, and actually *tell* me who I am and why I choose this OS, even AFTER I have repeatedly told you that you are wrong. That is the rhetoric of an immature ass, and I'm sick of it.

I choose Apple as my OS, and it has been that way since Windows 3.1, and the fact that Gates is an asshole has absolutely not the remotest influence on my decision. And I'm pretty extremely goddamn qualified to make that statement. To state that I choose Mac based on a dislike of Gates is an insult to me and Mac, and to INSIST that, over and over, is also just unspeakably stupid.

If you have even the remotest desire to think to yourself that this is a "discussion", then your "I'll tell you who you are and what you think" bull**** needs to stop, yesterday. If you have anything to say or ask, then first get the previous paragraph through your fat head, and then post without pretending that you know otherwise.

I told you before, however much you seem to want one, this is neither an argument nor a debate. Don't ask if you don't want the answer. Don't attack Mac and Mac users if you don't like my defense. And frankly blaming it on someone else is pretty lame. I'll try this again- if you have a problem with some Mac user, talk to him. Your argument that you can't do it that way stinks. You insulted Mac and Mac users, and continue to do so- my response is and has been to YOU.

And on your badgering me to describe the benefits of Mac to you- no, I WON'T convince you to buy Mac. **** off.

If you're qualified to speak on who I am or why I choose Mac then list those credentials now. Otherwise, game over- you "Win", in much the same way as a teenager or a terrorist- I simply don't have the stomach to deal with your self-important pretensions. You also seem to be completely immune to the notion of hypocrisy, btw.

I'll let Method Man speak for my outtro:

Who y'all kiddin?

Trying to act like my shoe's fittin,

Confused, with your head up your ass,

like "Who's ****tin?"

Eden

[Madmatt]

Guys! Grow the hell up! I see this crap posted again then I will ban the lot of you! Is that clear?!?

ySince ou agreed to the rules when you login here than by god you can follow them.

NO flames...

NO abusive language...

Keep the topics to issues pertaining to CM...

Its that simple, follow or get the hell out.

Madmatt